Is it Toxic? Maybe. Is it us? Absolutely.

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. Welcome to Spellbound, a Romantasy podcast. I'm Deidre. [00:00:14] Speaker B: And I'm Jillian. [00:00:15] Speaker A: Thanks for joining us. Welcome back. [00:00:18] Speaker B: Yeah. How are you? [00:00:19] Speaker A: Happy Tuesday, Jillian. [00:00:20] Speaker B: Happy Tuesday. How are you? Oh, pretty good. Yeah. [00:00:22] Speaker A: Yeah, they've been good. [00:00:23] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:00:24] Speaker A: Yeah, things have been good for me. Things are crazy at work right now, but I. I'm just soldiering through. That's kind of the answer. It's two into the week and that's kind of the answer I've been giving everybody. [00:00:34] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. [00:00:35] Speaker A: Just. [00:00:35] Speaker B: Just working through it. [00:00:36] Speaker A: Just trying my best. It literally feels like the sky is falling every day. I'm doing what I can to self do some self preservation and some self care. I feel like I'm doing a pretty good job striking that balance of knowing what's going on in the world, but also self care. [00:00:51] Speaker B: Nice buzzword. [00:00:52] Speaker A: Yeah. At this moment in time, unplugging when I can see what's been going on. Anything in sort of the Romantasy world. In your. In your world, anything that you've been doing? [00:01:03] Speaker B: Well, yeah, I mean, one thing I was going to mention is so why was I at the dog park last night at 8:45pm and Luna and I were moving and grooving, hopping and bopping to none other than Bonnie Raitt. Sneak of Time. [00:01:17] Speaker A: I love that. [00:01:18] Speaker B: BOP 1989. [00:01:20] Speaker A: Okay, that from our. When we were talking about Bonnie Raitt in the last episode, which if you haven't listened to the first episode. Episode by the time you listen to this. Not that we spent any extensive amount of time talking about Bonnie Raitt, but that's kind of circa the time frame that I thought that you were saying that you went to a Bonnie Raitt concert, but you told me it was circa 2019. [00:01:37] Speaker B: Circa 2019. Okay. [00:01:39] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, that's great. I need to get into the Bonnie Raitt discography. [00:01:45] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:01:46] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. Because I think I am only really familiar with. Let's give him something to talk about. [00:01:51] Speaker B: Something to talk about. [00:01:52] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:01:52] Speaker B: That's like the most famous one. [00:01:53] Speaker A: That was. I don't know, that was probably the most well known song in the Paris. [00:01:58] Speaker B: Household of no angel from Montgomery. [00:02:00] Speaker A: No, not necessarily. Not to say that I'm unfamiliar with that song, but it's not necessarily like it got multiple spins right in the Paris House. [00:02:08] Speaker B: That was a skip. [00:02:09] Speaker A: That was a skip. Yeah, exactly. Okay, well, I don't really have any sort of personal updates for myself. We can get right on into the Romancy News brief. Not a lot going on this way. I think everybody's been Pretty heads down into catching up on Onyx Storm and moving on whatever their favorite books are. I got Onyx Storm the day it came out. I saw Mikey, our beloved friend, like a week after it came out. He got the book. At the end of that week. I had not even cracked the book open at that point. I was, you know, I had so much, so many things going on. He read it within like 48 hours. He was already done. And I'm. Now I'm like just finishing the book. And that's like two weeks after. [00:02:53] Speaker B: Whoa. [00:02:53] Speaker A: I know. He's. He's like. He's like you. [00:02:56] Speaker B: He's like a speed reader. But even. But this book, I. I couldn't do that though. And we'll get to that. [00:03:01] Speaker A: Okay. All right. Yes. I'm very interested why you couldn't do that. Because, you know, as your signet of speed reading. Right. [00:03:09] Speaker B: As your signet solving puzzles. Yeah, that was a good puzzle solve. [00:03:12] Speaker A: Yeah, that was a good puzzle. I'm a good riddle solver. Um, yeah, I. I'm just sort of wrapping it up. But I did see a really interesting article that came out this week and the headline is really kind of what? And I signed up, I spent a dollar. So for the next six months, I don't have to deal with the very annoying paywall that is on the Boston Globe website. [00:03:35] Speaker B: But it's important. [00:03:37] Speaker A: It's very important. But anyway, there is an article that came out in the Boston Globe this week called Love in the Time of Magabros why Women are Craving Romance Novels Again in the Boston Globe article written by a reporter called Beth Title. And I, you know, this is like a headline that grabbed me because I'm like, how is any woman getting any sort of moisture going on down there with a man who. There's nothing that dries me up more than a California raisin like a Make America Great Again hat. So I'm trying to understand how romance is even how romance and maga are in the same. [00:04:13] Speaker B: I'll tell you what, it's not happening. It's not happening. [00:04:17] Speaker A: There's no drop of moisture over here. You know what I mean? [00:04:20] Speaker B: It's. [00:04:20] Speaker A: Death Valley is really kind of what I can equate it to arid. [00:04:23] Speaker B: It's very arid. [00:04:24] Speaker A: That's the best word that you could describe. But it was a really interesting article talking really sort of about how there's sort of been this onslaught of new romance specific bookstores that have popped up all over the US in this article in particular, they were talking about a bookstore called Lovestruck. That just opened it. Well, it didn't just open, but it's open in Harvard Square there in the Boston area. The quote unquote, intellectual capital of the world. Do they call themselves that? I'm just telling you what was written in the article. [00:04:55] Speaker B: Oh, that was written. [00:04:56] Speaker A: That was written in the article? Yes. [00:04:58] Speaker B: Okay. [00:04:58] Speaker A: That's from Beth Title herself. [00:05:00] Speaker B: I'm not familiar with her work, but okay. [00:05:02] Speaker A: Yeah, just let you know, this is just kind of what's going on. They sell merch, like hats saying my type is fictional. And I said, where is. Love it. Where's the online shop? Because I need to buy it. That's my slogan. You wear a MAGA hat. I'm wearing a hat that says my type is fictional. [00:05:18] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, my God, I would love that. [00:05:21] Speaker A: Exactly. But they were talking about the respect romance novels have earned recently and the emergence of these bookstores in the US they were talking about sort of how the genre has grown through the influence of book talk. Different sub genres, tropes, subcategories, things like hockey, romance, things of that. I was actually thinking about you a little bit, Christian. You strike me as like a cowboy slow burn romance. Does that. Does that sound right for you? [00:05:47] Speaker B: What does that mean exactly? Cowboy slow burn romance. [00:05:51] Speaker A: It's everything. [00:05:52] Speaker B: Brokeback Mountain. [00:05:53] Speaker A: Yeah. Pretty much. Just a long yearning over the. Over the rolling plains, you know, like. [00:05:58] Speaker B: Like, like you could see, like that. Do I act that way or do I. Is that the material that I read? Material that you read? [00:06:04] Speaker A: That's the material that you read. It seems like that would. You'd be a fan of that kind of material. [00:06:08] Speaker B: I've never gotten that before. [00:06:09] Speaker A: Okay. [00:06:10] Speaker B: It's like Charlton Heston times Horsey girl. [00:06:13] Speaker A: Yes. Right. Spot on. That's the Venn diagram that we're looking for. And in the middle is Christian. I love that. Just look into it, Christian, whenever you. [00:06:21] Speaker B: Get a chance, right after this. [00:06:24] Speaker A: But basically it was also just talking about how there are. There's just a stigma, I think, that's hard to overcome with these books because they're mainly. It's material by women, written for women. And just by that nature alone, it's just thought of as not being as serious. Right. And so there was a professor, an adjunct professor at Emerson in college by the name of Jennifer Saffry, who they mention, who teaches a course on romance novels and actually writes them herself. But she was just sort of making reference to the things that, you know, anything girls or women like things like pumpkin spice lattes or even Twilight people sort of want to make fun of it, but it seems like we're in this moment now with romance novels, but specifically Romantasy and all the hype that's kind of been around it where women are sort of, you know, claiming that back and really talking about how legitimate it is. So absolutely not a maga bro to be found in the article. They tricked me. [00:07:22] Speaker B: Oh, they did. [00:07:22] Speaker A: Because I was ready to rage. [00:07:24] Speaker B: Wait, why? [00:07:25] Speaker A: I don't know. There was. I mean, I'm thankful that there wasn't any maga bros in an article, but I mean, they really hooked me with that. With that headline. [00:07:32] Speaker B: Yeah. No, no mention of Zuckerberg or. [00:07:35] Speaker A: Yeah, I've had enough of that arid dry. [00:07:44] Speaker B: Well. Is that so that's all I did read. I can't remember and I apologize. I don't remember who it was, but that was talking about it. But basically it was like in the last year, like self help and psychology books, like the sales have gone down and Romantasy has gone up. And I'm like, well, if that isn't what explains our time right now. [00:08:03] Speaker A: We just want to be delulu. That's all we want. Don't sit here and try and teach me or guide me to be a better human being. Those days are over. [00:08:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:08:16] Speaker A: No, you see the moment we're living in, I'm trying to just completely zone out and dream about riding on the back of a dragon. [00:08:22] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:08:23] Speaker A: Absolutely. With some man who is emotionally intelligent. His emotional intelligence is off the charts. That's all I got for you right now. We're doing the best we can. [00:08:33] Speaker B: Yeah. I just want to be holding on to that pommel and the dragon and that's it. [00:08:39] Speaker A: Exactly. It's like we're not reading the Secret. Yeah. [00:08:42] Speaker B: Right, right. [00:08:42] Speaker A: We're turning in here. [00:08:43] Speaker B: The alchemist. [00:08:46] Speaker A: I got a different type of alchemy that I'll talk about. [00:08:48] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:08:52] Speaker A: But yeah, that's kind of the update this week again. I think the girls are focused on the Onyx Storm hangover. [00:08:59] Speaker B: They are. You know, I will say. I also will say, like I try to. Today I think that I was in a meeting and I think I got somebody else to be to start reading Romantasy and I'm like, welcome in to the coven. We have been waiting. [00:09:14] Speaker A: I am so glad that you said that because it was something that I was reading this week where it was basically talking about how these books have really taken off in popularity and how a lot of women. Girls and women have really gone from being the way they described it was agnostic to basically evangelists about the genre and how they. They're buying books for their friends. They're like, sister, do you have a minute to talk about the good word of our Lord? Lord and Savior, Enter whatever character. Yeah. And I was like, that's exactly what Jillian's doing. Jillian is, like, out here spreading the word. Yes. [00:09:52] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:09:53] Speaker A: You're like, you're. I mean, you're. You're this close to just knocking on doors. [00:09:57] Speaker B: I know, I know. [00:09:59] Speaker A: Try to spread the good word. [00:10:01] Speaker B: I know. I should get royalties, like, from Sarah J. Maas. [00:10:05] Speaker A: Like direct sales. [00:10:06] Speaker B: Yeah, direct sales. Yeah. [00:10:07] Speaker A: Let me just come into your home, give you a presentation, show you the value of this product pyramid scheme. This would be the MLM that I would sign up for. You may not make any financial gains, but spiritually you will be anyway. [00:10:22] Speaker B: Yes. [00:10:23] Speaker A: You will be rich. We should think about that. Yeah. We should have a deal. People used to go around selling encyclopedias. [00:10:30] Speaker B: That's true. Or knives. My parents still have a set of knives that they were sold when I was in high school. [00:10:36] Speaker A: But I think I still. My parents, somewhere, probably in the garage, have an encyclopedia set that was sold to them back in the early 90s that I never touched. [00:10:43] Speaker B: Encyclopedia. [00:10:44] Speaker A: It was encyclopedias. Who even knows what was in them? Around that time we had, like, CD ROMs with. [00:10:50] Speaker B: Yeah, right. [00:10:51] Speaker A: Everything we needed to know. And then CD roms. CD roms, you know, and you put it in and the computer sound like it was absolutely falling apart. And you were like, just give it five minutes. We'll. Right. Get this book report done. That was done and dusted. [00:11:03] Speaker B: Floppy disks. Remember floppy disks? [00:11:05] Speaker A: That was around the time. Yeah. I mean, we were definitely saving. We were saving book reports on floppy disks and turning floppy disks in. Do you remember that? [00:11:15] Speaker B: No, I was. [00:11:16] Speaker A: I don't know. [00:11:17] Speaker B: I think so. My school wasn't. Yeah. We were just turning in paper. [00:11:22] Speaker A: I don't know. I thought we were doing something. This is like, you know, NC public ed. This is Jim Pop. What I was doing. [00:11:30] Speaker B: My dad recently, he was like, trying to tell me he's getting these certain, like, iPhones that are. That are like, I don't know. They help with hearing. [00:11:43] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:11:43] Speaker B: And so he go. He was like, jillian, yeah, I'm getting these ipods. And I'm like, what do you mean ipods? And he's like, you know, I'm getting these. [00:11:53] Speaker A: And you're like, I don't know. [00:11:55] Speaker B: I mean, I swear to God, I was thinking about this the other day. I was like, you know, when you look at your parents, like, on their phone, you have no idea what's going on with that. Like, what do they know? Do they know how to do anything? [00:12:06] Speaker A: They're spreading a virus. I know that to be a fact. [00:12:09] Speaker B: Yes. [00:12:09] Speaker A: My mom will call me and be like, is this legit? They're offering me a gift card on here. And it popped up and says, if I don't take this gift card to Kroger, I'm gonna have this virus on my phone. And I'm like, throw the whole phone out. Burn it down. Most of the time I'm just. I don't know what you're talking about. You need to take it to the geek squad. Yeah, that's my option for everything. [00:12:29] Speaker B: I told you, my parents are going to their local high school to learn about technology. [00:12:34] Speaker A: Are you signing up for that class as well? [00:12:35] Speaker B: I think I am. [00:12:37] Speaker A: It'd be very helpful, I think. [00:12:39] Speaker B: Yeah. You know. [00:12:41] Speaker A: Yeah. Turning things into a PDF, doing the whole thing. We'll get it together. [00:12:45] Speaker B: Deleting my 200,000 emails, which it's actually 200,000. [00:12:50] Speaker A: So let's make that a goal in 2025. [00:12:52] Speaker B: That was a good goal. [00:12:53] Speaker A: I think that just getting your Google. What is it, your drive, your storage down. I mean, that would. That would. [00:13:01] Speaker B: Well, I think about it, because I paid for extra. You know, they got to the point where it was like, you're 95% full. [00:13:07] Speaker A: You'Re beyond health, is essentially what the truth of the matter is. [00:13:13] Speaker B: It's over. [00:13:15] Speaker A: All right, well, let's get into this week's book. I mean, we've been teasing it throughout, just this opening conversation, but essentially we are talking about the highly anticipated recent release of Onyx Storm, the third book in Rebecca Yarris Empyrean series. What a ride. [00:13:34] Speaker B: What a ride. And you were telling me how many books were sold in the first week. [00:13:39] Speaker A: Yeah, it's been a mega smash. 2.7 million copies in its first week. There was also an article in the New York Times here recently, and the headline was, rebecca Yarra says Onyx Storm is the fastest selling adult novel in 20 years. Article by Alexandra Alter. Again, 2.7 copies in its first week, which is wild, but I should note, crazier. Not. And this is not to take anything away from Rebecca, because that's wild. But I should mention that in children's literature, it's not holding a candle to, like, a Harry Potter. The Times quoted that it didn't say which Harry Potter book, but one sold 8.3 million copies in its first 24 hours. [00:14:21] Speaker B: Holy. I mean, I was probably there. [00:14:23] Speaker A: You, Peter and Beth were definitely three of those. 8.3 million, for sure. But it is the fastest selling adult title since Bookscan actually began tracking print sales around 20 years ago. [00:14:36] Speaker B: Oh, wow. [00:14:37] Speaker A: Okay. So she currently, as of this article's publishing, holds the first three spots on the Times hardcover bestseller list. Wow. She's killing it. [00:14:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:14:47] Speaker A: And just, you know, generally speaking, the article is talking about how Romanticy accounted for about 30 million print sales in the last year. A50. A 50% rise over the year before. So it's growing in popularity. And then really a really cute, sweet moment in the article was talking about how there's been these book release parties all over the country, and Rebecca's actually been doing a book tour. Like, oh, I saw that. You've seen some of that material. But they were covering an event that she did in St. Paul, Minnesota, and people just came out dressed up as their favorite characters. It's like a really sweet, like, fun bonding moment for people and friends, and they, you know, feel really connected to the book and Rebecca herself. And again, like I said, this is the article where one fan was really talking to the reporter and described herself from going from agnostic to an evangelist and spreading the gospel, so to speak. So it's really. It's really kind of exciting and. And interesting to see. [00:15:45] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, so I did read that. I think on Goodreads, 4th Wing is definitely the most popular. And then Iron Flame, and kind of every day the Onyx Storm keeps going down, which is interesting to me. Yeah. What are your thoughts initially on the book? [00:16:06] Speaker A: I mean, obviously you and I have a friendship outside of this podcast, so, like, I was keeping you abreast of what was going on. It. Overall, my impressions of book. I enjoyed the book overall. As a final product, I had a good time. It was an adventure. Got some notes, got some questions. But overall, I enjoyed myself. I'll say. When I first started reading it, I was very confused and overwhelmed for probably the first half of the book. No, well, first 25% to about 50% of the book. And I had not done a full rewrite of Iron well, either Fourth Wing or Iron Flame before I started this one, which I don't know. [00:16:52] Speaker B: I don't think that would have helped. [00:16:54] Speaker A: Honestly, I don't know if that would have helped. I just was like. It was like, a little chaotic. There were names being used that I don't ever recall seeing in my life. We were dropped basically just straight down into, like, battle strategy. And like, without sort of the familiarity of all the nuanced specifics of things that had happened in the plot over the course of the last two books, I felt very out of sorts. So it's very easy. And this is when I know things are not great for me. It was very easy for me to put the book down and not pick it up for a long time. [00:17:27] Speaker B: Right. [00:17:29] Speaker A: But once it kind of got going, once the general. At high level, once the general plot started kind of taking off, then I was fine. But when I got into, you know, we could talk about this, the granular details of some of the characters, dynamics within themselves and each other, it was, like, hard to read at certain points. But. Yeah, I mean, at first it was. It was a little. It was a little tough to get into. What'd you think? [00:17:54] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I. I would agree with all of that. I think that absolutely, like, it didn't kind of take off for me until, like, halfway through, but then it kind of went up and down. Like, it was just like there were things that the plot was moving forward, and then it was like, kind of. They did this, like, random thing. And so it wasn't super consistent. But I agree. I enjoyed the book. I think one of the things I enjoyed the most was reading about the theories afterwards. [00:18:23] Speaker A: That's the. That's the best part. That's the best part. That's almost, you know, it's almost as satisfying. It's almost scratching as much of an itch as, like, reading the book itself. [00:18:30] Speaker B: Totally. And it's like. It's like the community. Like, you're like, okay, we are here. Let's. Let's see what the girls are saying. [00:18:36] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:18:37] Speaker B: And girls inclusive and. Yeah. And. But I mean, I think that I had read this thing today, and again, sorry, I forgot who. Who said it, but basically, that was like, Zaden and Violet, they were the most annoying part of the book. So, like, in ir. Sorry, in Fourth Wing and Iron Flame, like, they were a great. You know, they were, like, great to read about. Zaden was Zaden. And. But yeah, and this one, I wasn't impressed. [00:19:10] Speaker A: I think I may have described them as this before, but it was really coming to light in this book. This is the most toxic, annoying couple that. You know, period. You know what I mean? Like, it is. And this book was, like, really ratcheting up the. Just toxicity between the two of them. [00:19:27] Speaker B: Right. [00:19:28] Speaker A: And it was like. I don't know, it was like my eyes were rolling so hard into the back of my head at certain times. Just the dynamic between the two of them. And as a matter of fact, to be honest, I know that those are our two main characters, but I found myself really wanting to hear more and see more perspectives from some of the supporting characters. And we got some of that. But the sappy, sweet, toxic engagement between Zaden and Violet in this book, specifically, given everything that's going on with him being infected as a Venin and her large, bold claims that she's gonna do anything to save him and he won't hurt her and all of these things, we. We got to see a little bit of. Of side characters in a bigger, more way. But I'm like, I. Let's blow those storylines out, right? [00:20:21] Speaker B: I mean, yeah, I definitely would like her to do. What Sarah J. Maas did with the Acotar series is like she then just kind of went into a different perspective. Yeah. [00:20:30] Speaker A: And you saw a little bit at the end of the book where we did get like different first person perspectives, which I thought was good. [00:20:36] Speaker B: Yeah. And honestly, like, I wonder. I did wonder about that. Like, is she kind of like, is she moving into like somebody else's storyline? Doesn't seem like it though, given how it ended. No, I did like that she was. That they were other people's perspectives. But like, that was very. It was very chaotic. Like I didn't know what was going on. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, overall, I think I enjoyed. Even though the end was chaotic, I think I enjoyed that the most. Yeah. Like the last. I would say last like 15% of it. [00:21:14] Speaker A: Yeah. I feel like we were just locked in a battle the entire time. [00:21:18] Speaker B: We were just, we were just there. We were like. [00:21:20] Speaker A: What took me so long is I was like going back and rereading so like so many like, entries, like so many things just to make sure that I had it down. Because it was like, very confusing for me. Like, here's the thing. We were. The book was bracketed by battles. Like, we're entering into like post basquiat battle battle, trying to like pull our resources together and figure out like, how we're going to move forward. Right then little fights and skirmishes here and there. We do the quest squad thing, we do all that and we seem to be in PeaceTime for maybe four days and then we go right back into battle again. And that was. Yeah, I mean, I think in those moments, especially during like war and like little, you know, skirmishes here and there, that's really when it felt like I felt super engaged in the book. You know what I mean? Just in Terms of just action being had. [00:22:11] Speaker B: You're right. I think it was. It took a long time for even the Quest Squad. Quest Squad. There wasn't a lot of action or it would like, be for a little bit. And then. And then it just go back to the two of them being like, I love you. You're my. [00:22:26] Speaker A: Yeah, we're gonna get into that. My yuck and yum section. Honestly, it's the worst. That's probably where I think we can spend a lot of our time with Violet and Zaden. [00:22:37] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:22:37] Speaker A: I want to talk a little bit about some of the supporting characters that we really loved in this book. Here's my MVPs. Okay. I've got like two of them, I think. [00:22:47] Speaker B: I know, but. Yeah, go ahead. [00:22:49] Speaker A: Do you want to make a guess? [00:22:50] Speaker B: Bodhi and Eric. [00:22:52] Speaker A: Okay, we got one. [00:22:53] Speaker B: Okay. [00:22:55] Speaker A: I call it. I call him Riddick. Okay. [00:22:58] Speaker B: Oh, right, right. [00:22:59] Speaker A: And Eric. Those are my two. Those two were pretty much carrying the whole of the book for me. Rick was doing wild work with the comic relief. [00:23:08] Speaker B: Yeah, he was. He was. [00:23:09] Speaker A: And Eric, I mean, like, we wouldn't have a book, let's be honest. If everybody looked to Eric for guidance. [00:23:17] Speaker B: Right. [00:23:17] Speaker A: But the man has the answers, he speaks the language, he has the money, and now we know he could see into the future. So what are we doing here? [00:23:23] Speaker B: I know. [00:23:25] Speaker A: What are we doing? [00:23:26] Speaker B: I know. Seriously, what are we like? Like, why don't we even read the fourth book? I mean, because you know what's happening. [00:23:31] Speaker A: This book could have ended probably about 75 of the way. [00:23:34] Speaker B: Oh, for sure. [00:23:35] Speaker A: When that manifests, when that thing that manifested, we could have shut this down. [00:23:39] Speaker B: You know, I'm interested, though. Like, I don't know how long that was manifesting for. And he didn't know it or we didn't know it. [00:23:46] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:23:47] Speaker B: So it could have been going on for a long time. [00:23:49] Speaker A: Yeah, it definitely could have been going on for a long time. But I'm interested to know if there's any limitations to it in the way that there's like, who is it? [00:23:55] Speaker B: Melbourne. [00:23:56] Speaker A: He can't see if there's three cursed ones or whatever. [00:24:02] Speaker B: Yeah, marked one. [00:24:03] Speaker A: Marked ones in the vicinity. But I'm like, does Eric have those limitations? It doesn't really seem like he does. [00:24:09] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, there was something I read on like, Reddit that was like. Well, they were. They were thinking that he was like the new brother, which we'll talk about later. But basically because they were like, if he could see, like. [00:24:23] Speaker A: Oh. [00:24:23] Speaker B: Cuz he said. He said, talked about his brother Halden, and said, like, you were meant to be, like, a king, a bad king. And I was meant to, like, die doing what I love. And so. And there were people that were thinking, like, oh, has he actually seen his death? Like, does he know that he dies doing. I know you're upset. No, that's a good theory. You're like, he's gonna die. [00:24:45] Speaker A: No, he can't die on me. He's the only thing holding me together in this damn book. [00:24:48] Speaker B: I know. I do love him. He was great. [00:24:51] Speaker A: He's a great addition. [00:24:53] Speaker B: He really is. [00:24:53] Speaker A: I'm telling you, it was the side characters that were, like, really kind of carrying me through in this book, because. [00:24:59] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure. I mean, I had another one, Bode, and I think that was. He was carrying me through. [00:25:04] Speaker A: Okay, tell me a little bit about your. Your love and sort of connection to Bode. [00:25:08] Speaker B: Okay, well, first of all. Okay, you're prepared. First of all, it might have been the character name for Patrick Swayze in Point Break. So I think that is, like, I was, like, connected to him, but I just like that I feel like he's early Zaden, and, like, he's supposedly looks like him because they're cousins. But I also just like that he's like, not. He's like, no, nonsense. You know, he's just sort of like, whatever, I'm here. We're in. We're. You know, we're doing the thing. We're in war with a venom. But, yeah, so I think I was. [00:25:44] Speaker A: Telling you two that I'm like, what is so crazy to me about characters like Bodhi and Garak, right? Because Garrick's a marked one where he's like. Part of it is that it seems to me. I mean, obviously, Zayn, he's got his shit going on. So I didn't. You know, that's. But Garak and Bodhi still seem to be very aligned and assigned to the original mission was that we've got to save, like, all 107 marked that are coming through here. And it feels very much again, going back to Zaden and Violet, that they have completely abandoned that entire intention, that entire mission. Zaden doesn't care. They're focused solely on the survival of each other. He's like, I don't care about this city. I care about her. She's like, I'll save him. I don't care who has to die in my way. You know, I'm like, come on, guys. It's giving the demolishment of usaid. [00:26:38] Speaker B: Yes, it is. [00:26:41] Speaker A: You'Re pulling back funding. I don't understand what's going on. [00:26:44] Speaker B: Yeah, it's a really big problem. [00:26:46] Speaker A: It's a huge problem. We have an international crisis on our hands, and you two are worried about God knows what. [00:26:53] Speaker B: God knows what. Yeah. I mean, that's why. Yeah, I definitely respect Bode and Garak and Imogen because they are sort of like, let's stay on task chat. We'd love Zaden, for you to get your house together. But, like, we're also, like, we're fighting for our. What is it? Territory or for our. [00:27:09] Speaker A: I'm sitting there like, I know 107 people haven't been conscripted. What's going. [00:27:13] Speaker B: No, they're children. [00:27:14] Speaker A: What's going on? You still have things that you have to do, like, things that you have to protect or. But then I'm like, am I wrong? Because, like, things have just gone to. Because things are in war that, like, they're not doing any. They're not doing any new enrollments. What's going on? [00:27:31] Speaker B: There's no recruitment going on. Yeah. [00:27:33] Speaker A: They've demolished it. [00:27:35] Speaker B: No, but wait. So one thing I did see was so in. In fourth wing, it was like, oh, ride or die. You know, they will. You could possibly die, but I think that's, like, over now. Like, they're not trying to kill each other because they need each other for the war. [00:27:51] Speaker A: They definitely need each other. In the first two books, it was like, it's anybody's guess if you're gonna survive the night. [00:27:56] Speaker B: Right, Right. [00:27:58] Speaker A: Like, we just need a warm body. [00:27:59] Speaker B: There's no guarantee. [00:28:00] Speaker A: Go. They got Sawyer up there. He's got his prosthetic leg on his dragon. [00:28:05] Speaker B: Sawyer. [00:28:06] Speaker A: I know. Sweet angel. Good for him. I love seeing him back in the saddle. [00:28:10] Speaker B: I do, too. Literally. [00:28:13] Speaker A: Love to see it. [00:28:14] Speaker B: Love to see it. Yeah. [00:28:17] Speaker A: I also want to talk a little bit about. Okay. So we talked about Riddick. I think in the first couple books, we'd see little glimpses of him here and there and his sense of humor. But this. This book, he really took a leading role, for sure. [00:28:28] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:28:28] Speaker A: And it, like, really helped provide a lot of levity in the book, which. I really appreciate it. And like that. So more of that, more of him in upcoming books. Rhiannon, Solid as a rock. [00:28:41] Speaker B: Love her. [00:28:42] Speaker A: Not a lot of updates on that end. [00:28:44] Speaker B: Yeah, she wasn't in the book a lot. [00:28:46] Speaker A: She wasn't in the book. She was Steady Eddie throughout the entire book, and we need somebody to be a solid rock. [00:28:52] Speaker B: Yeah. We definitely can count on Her. She's not. Like, she's not gonna go off mission. [00:28:58] Speaker A: There was a part near the end of the book where they started to switch. Transition or not transition. They started to sw. Point of views, essentially, of who it was written from. But it's, you know, through the book, it's from Violet's point of view. And I know I'm gonna say this thing's name wrong. I said Theophilus earlier, but I know it's Theophany. Theophany. She and Theophany. Violet and Theophany were in the field there in Eretia, basically, you know, battling back and forth, and it looked like Theophany had Violet pinned. And there's a thought that Violet has where she's like. She says something about, like, she's the best or something. And I thought she was talking about, like, she'd been had by Theophany. But then in the next page, it literally switches to Rhiannon's point of view. And I was like, I wonder, like, is that switch up intentional for Violet? The last thing that she says to be like, she's the best we've got, or she's the best, she mentions something before it switches over to Rhiannon. [00:29:59] Speaker B: I think I remember that. [00:30:00] Speaker A: Okay. Yeah. And I wonder if that's like. Like purposeful in some way. I don't know if that's, like, leading us to. Leading us to anything. I could just be leading you down a dead end. [00:30:09] Speaker B: But totally, yeah. I mean, that's the thing is, like, some of these. Some of these, like, sad plots are like. I don't. [00:30:14] Speaker A: What are you gonna do? Throw that away? You know what? Just erase the last 30 seconds of this podcast. We don't need it. [00:30:20] Speaker B: Yeah. No. Oh, my God. You know why? Oh, sorry, sorry. [00:30:24] Speaker A: Go ahead. [00:30:25] Speaker B: No, you know, I also liked. Was Imogen. [00:30:28] Speaker A: Love Imogen. More. More of Imogen. [00:30:30] Speaker B: More of Imogen. [00:30:31] Speaker A: You know what I do wish, though? I do. That we would have gotten more of her friendship with Quinn. [00:30:37] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:30:37] Speaker A: Because it was heartbreaking. I'm 1:45 in the morning, and I was. I was tearful, and I was texting you, and I was like, I'm spiraling. [00:30:45] Speaker B: Oh, my God. [00:30:47] Speaker A: And. But I just wish. I mean, we'd see glimpses of Quinn throughout the books, but I don't think I knew how close they were. [00:30:54] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, it was one of those things where, you know, when they were Violet and Quinn and Imogen were working on the ruins, which I still don't understand what that is. Like, the lesser magic, whatever. [00:31:03] Speaker A: Keep me out of it. Keep me out of it. My brain just completely. [00:31:07] Speaker B: It's like. But basically, it was like Imogen didn't want to help Violet, and. Or. Or she said, oh, why aren't you letting me help you? And. And Violet was letting Quinn help her because she just was, like, more of a Softer. Yeah. So I think they. She went a little bit into that relationship more in preparation for. For the death. Quinn's death. [00:31:31] Speaker A: Death. [00:31:32] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:31:32] Speaker A: It was just horrible. [00:31:33] Speaker B: It was very sad. [00:31:35] Speaker A: She. [00:31:35] Speaker B: She writes a good death scene. [00:31:36] Speaker A: Yep, she does. I mean, because it was up there in the. The way it was written for Liam. Yeah. No, she was like, we made it good. [00:31:46] Speaker B: Oh, no. So sad. [00:31:48] Speaker A: Very sad. And Imogen just could not let her go. And here is Garrett coming down to, like, rescue Imogen, and it's like, you, Garrett. We can't even have this. We can't even have this moment where we're like. We're like, oh, they're together. No. [00:32:01] Speaker B: Yes. Yes. [00:32:02] Speaker A: They're speeding away from death. [00:32:04] Speaker B: Yeah. He did take her, though. He did take her body. [00:32:07] Speaker A: God bless. Yeah. We talked a little bit about Eric on the heels of Eric Halden. Very. I hate him. Hate him. Hate him as a character. Hate him as a character. This is a good segue, though. I got to tell you something. I noticed talking about patterns, you know, there was a mention of patterns in this book. Rebecca does not like. Like a romantic rival. She does not. She does not let up off the neck of a romantic rival. And what I mean by that is Dane and Cat could not catch a break in this book. [00:32:39] Speaker B: Yeah, I know. [00:32:40] Speaker A: Could not catch a break. [00:32:41] Speaker B: That's true. [00:32:42] Speaker A: It's like she continues to punish them, and I'm like, sister, I don't need them to be punished anymore. No, they're nobody. Nobody sees them as a threat. [00:32:51] Speaker B: They didn't kill anyone. I mean, yeah, she did kill Cat. [00:32:54] Speaker A: So terribly in this book. [00:32:55] Speaker B: I know. And I like Cat. [00:32:57] Speaker A: I like Cat, too. [00:32:58] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:32:59] Speaker A: I like her. I think that we're trying. She's trying to make us not like her because she was betrothed to Zaden at one point in time. But, like, we're past that now. [00:33:09] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, it is part of the whole toxic relationship. Like, it. There's that jealousy and the controlling and. Yeah, I don't like it. [00:33:16] Speaker A: I mean, that's an ick for me, especially when Halden first came in to the scene and Zaden got wildly territorial. [00:33:24] Speaker B: Did you love him? She was like, that's a complicated answer. And he's like, did you love him? [00:33:29] Speaker A: Meanwhile, I'd like to mention the fact that neither of these characters are so madly in love and they don't know anything about each other. Zaden and Violet. And I mention that because there was that scene in Umbriel when they were riding horseback through the town, and Zaden, like, had this moment of calm and peace come over him, which was very interesting. But he happens to just, like, look over at Violet and Daniel and be like, y'all grew up together, right? [00:33:53] Speaker B: They're not having conversations. [00:33:56] Speaker A: Where'd y'all grow up? Like, have you ever ridden a horse? [00:34:00] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:34:01] Speaker A: What's your name again? [00:34:02] Speaker B: Have you ever ridden a horse? [00:34:04] Speaker A: It's. And everybody's looking at him like, what are you talking about? Like, of course we, like, rode horses together, whatever it is. But it was, like, a signal to me that there's nothing going on between these two. But just besides the. [00:34:16] Speaker B: Like, you. [00:34:17] Speaker A: You. Sorry to be crass, but sucking and fucking. [00:34:19] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure. [00:34:21] Speaker A: And that is not a love story. You know what I mean? Like, I'm like, you know nothing about this person's childhood. We know nothing about childhood. We. We. We've gotten glimpses. In this book, we learned that Zaden was abandoned after eating some chocolate cake. [00:34:33] Speaker B: Yeah, well, you know, in. Riding a horse in that era is like. Is like riding in a car. It's like asking her, like, oh, do you ride in a. Have you ridden in a car? Yes. [00:34:46] Speaker A: God, it was just the weirdest thing. [00:34:48] Speaker B: Yeah, I know. [00:34:49] Speaker A: The two of them just don't know each other. It added to my irritation because I'm like, what kind of question is that? Yeah, if, like, you're willing to, like, let worlds fall, you're. You're willing to let worlds fall for somebody. You don't know if they. They rode the horror. [00:35:02] Speaker B: I know. Come on. What is that? [00:35:06] Speaker A: I have no idea. Dane Atos also catching strays in this book. He was really struggling. I mean, they bought him along as, like, the translator for the. For the quest squad. Whole time, Eric is showing him up. [00:35:20] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:35:21] Speaker A: Yeah. He can't wield on the battlefield. [00:35:23] Speaker B: I know. [00:35:23] Speaker A: Poor D. He's just charged up all the time. [00:35:26] Speaker B: Oh, my God. And his father. [00:35:28] Speaker A: His dad disowning him. [00:35:29] Speaker B: Oh, that was terrible. [00:35:30] Speaker A: It was hard to see. That's what I'm saying. She continues to punish these characters. [00:35:34] Speaker B: Yeah. And he's really just. Not that. He's not bad. It's not just that. He, like, you know, he and Violet had a thing also. [00:35:42] Speaker A: I mean, is it a bad thing? For a man to, like, you know, follow some rules. Rules? [00:35:47] Speaker B: Well, the. The rules that he follows, like, how rigidly. [00:35:50] Speaker A: I mean. [00:35:51] Speaker B: I mean, I agree. Yeah. [00:35:52] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, you know. Yes, I would agree with you in this book. Maybe not as rigid to the rules that he was following because he was being oppressive to Violet, but, like. Right. [00:36:00] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:36:00] Speaker A: I mean, he's. He's loosened up a little bit. [00:36:02] Speaker B: He has loosened it up. Yep. Yeah, he's accepted and he's. It's not like he hasn't accepted the two of them. He sees his best. Yeah. He sees them as, like, very toxic. And he's like, all right, go and do you. [00:36:13] Speaker A: He's holding no grudges. Yeah, he's just doing his thing. I noticed that as a pattern in this book. I was like, she doesn't like how. She doesn't like Halden. That makes sense. [00:36:23] Speaker B: No, he's awful. [00:36:24] Speaker A: He's terrible. And him. But Cat and Dane deserved better. And Trager. Trager getting murdered in the middle of. [00:36:32] Speaker B: Yeah. So Cat's new boyfriend finally gets murdered. [00:36:37] Speaker A: She finally found love away from Zayan. [00:36:40] Speaker B: Oh, that was sad, too, when they. When they, like, brought him and his dragon to another area or. No, it was a griffin. [00:36:47] Speaker A: Yeah, it was a griffin. And then they. Yeah, they lit him on fire. [00:36:50] Speaker B: Now tell me, what do you see? Like, describe to me how you see a griffin or Griffon. [00:36:57] Speaker A: I think griffin suffices. Thought you tried to put a little flare on it. [00:37:04] Speaker B: Either. Either. [00:37:07] Speaker A: I see it as like. Like, just a large. Like a large. I don't know, like chicken. Almost like a large bird. Like lion, essentially. [00:37:23] Speaker B: Oh, lion. So I see it as like an ostrich. [00:37:26] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:37:27] Speaker B: Like a flying ostrich. Yeah. [00:37:29] Speaker A: I mean, it's kind of. [00:37:30] Speaker B: That's what it is. [00:37:31] Speaker A: Yeah, I think so. [00:37:32] Speaker B: Okay. Okay. [00:37:33] Speaker A: Not done. My Google's on it in a while, but, yeah, I think you're on the right path. [00:37:38] Speaker B: Fan art. [00:37:38] Speaker A: Yeah, I think you're on the right path. I see it as, like, a cat. Bird. [00:37:42] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. Oh, that was so sad, though, when. Because, you know, so when a human dies, then the griffin dies, as opposed to, like, when a dragon dies, the human dies. [00:37:54] Speaker A: I was going to text you because I was. I. This entire time, I've been operating under the assumption that, like, even when a human dies, the dragons die. But that's not it. Dragons are like, I'm not going down for you. [00:38:04] Speaker B: Yeah. Hell no. [00:38:05] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:38:06] Speaker B: They're like, all right, next one. Next rider. [00:38:08] Speaker A: But then my question then is, like, then why are Zaden and Violet so concerned about the other dying? Because I'm like, your dragon's gonna be fine. [00:38:14] Speaker B: Well, yeah. I mean, I think it's because Taryn, when he lost Naolin or Nolan, he was so heartbroken and that sometimes he. [00:38:23] Speaker A: Can drag it again. [00:38:23] Speaker B: Yeah. Sometimes dragons do die because they're so heartbroken. And so the thinking was that, like, if he loses another one, another R, he might die. And then Scale would die because they're bonded, so they're dragons. Whatever. So that was their fear. [00:38:42] Speaker A: Okay, well, that helps clarify a lot for me. I gotta also be honest with you. In this book, I thought Llewelyn was a person, not necessarily a place, is it. [00:38:50] Speaker B: Do I know that is a person? Yeah, I think it's a. It's a person and a place. But she wasn't clear on that. [00:38:56] Speaker A: Let me go. [00:38:57] Speaker B: Shot the book. [00:38:58] Speaker A: Because there were so many times when I'm like, we're gonna go and stay in Llewellyn. And I'm like, oh, yeah, isn't this a man? [00:39:05] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, and it actually, he was the kind of character that I was like, he could go. He could be bad. [00:39:11] Speaker A: Yeah, he was. He was giving me, like, playing both sides of the coin. I also want to talk a little bit about Jinny and Sawyer. So sweet. Yeah, I'm rooting for them. [00:39:22] Speaker B: I am, too. [00:39:23] Speaker A: What I was not rooting for was Jenia getting kicked out of her prestigious program for the benefit of this group. [00:39:31] Speaker B: Project for the benefit of the continent. Really? I mean. [00:39:35] Speaker A: I mean, it's. It's a noble cause, but I was like, sister, think of your career. [00:39:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:39:39] Speaker A: Really, Honestly, this man's not gonna support you. [00:39:43] Speaker B: No, he is not. Oh, poor Sawyer. [00:39:46] Speaker A: Yeah, he's. He's a good character. I want more from him, too. When we were talking about the theories this morning, a little bit, though, we were talking about, we won't get there now, but we were talking about, like, who's the newly created brother? [00:39:57] Speaker B: Right. Right. I don't think it's. So you think it's possibly. [00:40:00] Speaker A: I don't know. I mean, you know, that would be out of. Completely out of left field. [00:40:04] Speaker B: That would be out of. [00:40:04] Speaker A: It would be. [00:40:05] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:40:05] Speaker A: I mean, I think we know who it is, but. [00:40:08] Speaker B: I know. I mean, I. And I feel. I don't know. I have complicated feelings about that because. We'll talk about it. [00:40:13] Speaker A: I want your boy to stay good. [00:40:15] Speaker B: I do. I love Bodhi. [00:40:18] Speaker A: Another thing that was so interesting to me, too, was all the mention. I'll tell you what? Confused the. Out of me. All the names. Number one, that always confuses me. People, places, things. This time. [00:40:29] Speaker B: Dragons. Yeah. [00:40:30] Speaker A: She was just calling people by last name, and I was like, no, you're gonna have to get some. Some ID cards going on up here. [00:40:37] Speaker B: And she never did that in the first two books, I feel like. Yeah, but she'd be like, lieutenant Tavis. [00:40:43] Speaker A: I was like, step up, Lieutenant Tavis. Who was that? What? [00:40:47] Speaker B: Or she, like, talk about a dragon. She'll be like, chad Ra. And it's like, I don't know who that is. [00:40:52] Speaker A: That's a better pronunciation. [00:40:53] Speaker B: What color is he? What's going on? [00:40:55] Speaker A: For me, this one was the gods, and it was like Dune. [00:41:02] Speaker B: Dun. Yeah. Amari. [00:41:04] Speaker A: Amari. [00:41:05] Speaker B: Hellion. [00:41:06] Speaker A: Hellion. Xynol. Rupaul. What's going on? I would definitely. I would pray at the Temple of RuPaul. [00:41:14] Speaker B: I would, too. [00:41:14] Speaker A: I would, too. I'd be a high priestess at the Temple of RuPaul. [00:41:18] Speaker B: Which, by the way, they're creepy. Is that supposed to be, like, a nun, the high priestess? [00:41:25] Speaker A: I don't know. I think we'll get. We'll see more of that in future books. I don't know. Oh, you know who I didn't think about? Mira. [00:41:32] Speaker B: Oh, poor Mir. You know what? I feel bad about this. [00:41:35] Speaker A: You're about to say something real problematic. [00:41:37] Speaker B: I can feel it. I actually, like, I wouldn't mind if she had died. Like, I feel like I. Quinn. Like. And I don't even know why, because we know more about Mira. But I think I was annoyed with her in this book, and so Quinn just kind of, like, gutted me, but I feel like Mira. It almost would have been like, all right, we got that over with. You know what I mean? Like, a major death. [00:42:02] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:42:02] Speaker B: Whereas now I'm, like, worried about who's it gonna be? [00:42:06] Speaker A: Yeah. Because we didn't get a major death in this. We're due. [00:42:09] Speaker B: No. Yeah. Which we haven't really. I mean, we didn't. Liam, I feel like, is the most major. But he's. He wasn't like. [00:42:18] Speaker A: He wasn't a major character. [00:42:19] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:42:19] Speaker A: It was just like the first major death in the first major book that we had read. [00:42:23] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:42:23] Speaker A: It felt very big. [00:42:24] Speaker B: And that's one thing that Mikey said when I talked to him about this is like. He's like. He thinks that's a problem. People got, like, really hooked on it when Liam died. You know, it was sort of like, oh, this is. You know, this is a really good book. But now she just isn't killing anybody off. [00:42:42] Speaker A: No. [00:42:42] Speaker B: I don't know. [00:42:44] Speaker A: Another sort of somewhat loss that we saw was in Darna. Not lost in, like, she's no longer with us. [00:42:52] Speaker B: Right, Right. [00:42:53] Speaker A: But we spent such a large majority of the book searching for her people. [00:42:57] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:42:58] Speaker A: And that was really hard to read. When she finally got around them and they rejected her, that was probably one of the hardest things for me to read as a reader. But eventually one of them from her den comes and finds her in the battlefield and takes her back. Back to the very special place in which they. This special aisle in which the Irids live. [00:43:22] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:43:23] Speaker A: To teach her their ways. And Violet loses it. [00:43:26] Speaker B: Loses her. [00:43:27] Speaker A: I'm like, but you just, you just spent weeks searching for her. People telling her that you. That's what you want for her. [00:43:35] Speaker B: And then you're like, no, you're leaving me. [00:43:37] Speaker A: What? I'm gonna be depressed for 72 hours. [00:43:40] Speaker B: By the way, I saw this thing that was like. Like the Irids look like My Little Pony. [00:43:46] Speaker A: I believe it. [00:43:48] Speaker B: Like, that that was the, like, what they were thinking about, like, with the, like the rainbow. [00:43:53] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:43:54] Speaker B: And I was like, I kind of see it. [00:43:55] Speaker A: I like that. Yeah. I like the colors. You know what it reminded me of? You know, this. You can't see it, but whenever I get that holographic paint on my nails. [00:44:03] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:44:04] Speaker A: I was like, yeah, that's what it's giving me. [00:44:06] Speaker B: The mermaids. Yeah. Yeah. Maeve loves that. Yeah. [00:44:09] Speaker A: Getting all that, like, it turns different colors in the light. Yeah. There was just so many dynamics between the characters in this book that was wildly interesting and leaves us wanting more. [00:44:22] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, and we talked about this today. Like, I, Taryn, I am like, he's tried and true. I love him. And I think that one of the reasons I love him is because he just doesn't put up with her bullshit. You know, she. And, and, and he doesn't like Xaden. And I think that's sort of like. Yeah. Because he sucks right now. [00:44:43] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:44:43] Speaker B: No, like, ever since he turned, I think he's never really liked him. But like when he was the wing leader, remember you call him the wing leader and so he didn't mind him, but I think since he turned Ben in, it was like, no, I'm over it. [00:44:58] Speaker A: Yeah. He really never has anything nice to say about him. [00:45:01] Speaker B: No, no. [00:45:02] Speaker A: And scale is annoying with Violet all the time. Well, I mean, she's validated in that. [00:45:07] Speaker B: As she should be. Yeah. [00:45:09] Speaker A: It's her God given right to be annoyed with Violet. I'm like, yeah, girl. I completely agree. [00:45:14] Speaker B: Yeah. Nobody wants to read about her. [00:45:16] Speaker A: No. Yeah. That was a big part of this book, too, Was just the management of Zaden's illness. We'll call it that. [00:45:26] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:45:27] Speaker A: So many people covering up for the fact that he was venin. Trying to make it stall. Yeah. And. Yeah. But slowly but surely, it just reveals itself to ultimately the final end where he just can't. He just can't help himself. And he unleashes an onyx storm on the world to stop this. [00:45:50] Speaker B: Did you see that coming? I didn't see that coming. [00:45:52] Speaker A: I didn't see it coming. But I was also just kind of like, it's a matter of time. [00:45:56] Speaker B: Yeah. Right, Right. [00:45:58] Speaker A: He's inflicted. [00:45:59] Speaker B: Yeah. And she's acting like it's not going to happen. And it's like, no, it's gonna happen. [00:46:03] Speaker A: He'll never hurt me. [00:46:06] Speaker B: I don't. He's changed, but he'll never hurt me. Yeah. [00:46:11] Speaker A: You know, the ultimate moment of toxicity in this book. And when I read it, I was like, jillian. Jillian's not a fan of that is the last pages of the book, and it's revealed that Violet has gotten married. And she has no memory of it. [00:46:31] Speaker B: No consent. [00:46:33] Speaker A: I was like, get married? [00:46:36] Speaker B: No. [00:46:36] Speaker A: It's not going to work in this camp. [00:46:38] Speaker B: And I hated how she was like. And I looked down at my finger, and it was the finger. And I was like, oh, come on. [00:46:46] Speaker A: Yeah. She was like an emerald the size of a. Of a thumbprint. [00:46:50] Speaker B: Thumbprint. [00:46:51] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:46:52] Speaker B: We don't care. [00:46:53] Speaker A: We don't care. [00:46:54] Speaker B: We really don't care. Care. [00:46:55] Speaker A: Your man's out here looking skeletal, riding on the back of who? God, who knows what. [00:46:59] Speaker B: Yeah. Red veins all over his that look like her lightning. [00:47:04] Speaker A: That was her lightning that she can't. She wield. [00:47:06] Speaker B: She can't wield it. [00:47:08] Speaker A: I'm getting very irritated. [00:47:09] Speaker B: Yeah. No matter how often she practices it. Yeah. [00:47:12] Speaker A: I'm getting highly irritated. I'm like, girl, at this point, people have, like, mastered their signets, and now they're doing wild with their signets. You see what Rick's over there doing? He's like, freezing people from the inside out. [00:47:24] Speaker B: And she's like, I got two of them. I miss. [00:47:28] Speaker A: I think I split the bolts. [00:47:29] Speaker B: I think. [00:47:31] Speaker A: I think I hit four. I need my conduit. [00:47:35] Speaker B: Get it together. [00:47:36] Speaker A: Let me tell you something right now. And I thought about this while I was reading the book, and I want to say this very clearly because I believe in it strongly. And we'll talk a little bit about Yaman Yik reading all three books, it is no secret that Violet has physical impairments. [00:47:52] Speaker B: Yeah, limitations. Yeah. [00:47:53] Speaker A: And limitations. And all the, you know, characters in the world. Xaden was so sweet to create with along with Taryn. Create a new, like, saddle for her. Something that would allow her. But still, I mean, she does the best that she can. She. But she's still like pulling her, you know, her joints out, like things. She's still getting hurt pretty much every day. [00:48:16] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:48:17] Speaker A: There is no pain in this girl to be found when she is bent over doing the splits. [00:48:23] Speaker B: True. That is true. [00:48:26] Speaker A: Dropping it low. [00:48:27] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. [00:48:28] Speaker A: Popping it in a handstand for this man. Any which way ever. She don't. She never talks about any physical pain when she's having sex. And I'm like, that's not how it works. [00:48:41] Speaker B: And the way he slamming you around, crashing into you, that I know there's some pain there. [00:48:47] Speaker A: Yeah. She's never like. And my joint popped out of its socket. [00:48:50] Speaker B: Oh my God. [00:48:50] Speaker A: Never. You never hear that. In those moments. She's as flexible as they come in those moments. [00:48:55] Speaker B: Oh, no. Look out for that. Yep. I didn't even really think about that. That's. That's a good point. [00:49:01] Speaker A: She has no limitations when it comes to their sexual encounters. [00:49:04] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:49:04] Speaker A: I mean, in this one there were some. There was some like really physical acts that they were doing in this book as well. Oh, absolutely. No. No issues flying on a dragon hours. No problems. I'm about to bend it over. I'm about to pop it up. [00:49:18] Speaker B: She's a gymnast all of a sudden. She's a gymnast. Yep. [00:49:21] Speaker A: Popping it on a handstand. [00:49:23] Speaker B: No, I don't believe it. [00:49:25] Speaker A: So it's just something that like bothers me because I'm like, you've got all this pain, but you got all, all the time in the world right for this. [00:49:33] Speaker B: Yeah. But he'll never hurt her. [00:49:35] Speaker A: Oh, God, no. [00:49:37] Speaker B: Should we do the yum and the yuck? [00:49:40] Speaker A: My yum and yuck of the week. Generally speaking, I probably can pull up some quotes here is just Zaden and Violet overall in this book. Their dynamic is toxic. Violet's protection of him is toxic. His protection of her is toxic. And it makes it very exhausting for me as a logical, level headed reader, honestly. [00:50:03] Speaker B: Yeah. And you know, we love this mot, but like, it got to the point where it was like, you know, they'd like start like, you know, they couldn't like keep their hands off of each other. And I was like, not again. I don't Want to hear this again? [00:50:15] Speaker A: After a minute, I'm like, I can't. Nothing about this is thrilling me. [00:50:20] Speaker B: No, it's exhausting. [00:50:22] Speaker A: It was exhausting. There wasn't. I didn't think there was as much terrible stuff in this book as there was, like, even in the last book. Cause, you know, in the first book, it was like, slow burn, like, getting to know each other. Last book, it was, like, just falls to the wall, quite literally between them. And in this book, there's obviously a little restraint because he's unwell. [00:50:40] Speaker B: Yeah. Yes. But then what's weird about that is, like, who came up with the 77 days? You know, in that part when he was like, I haven't fed for 77 days. [00:50:51] Speaker A: Well, you're not about to start here. [00:50:55] Speaker B: And then it was weird. He was like, make sure you have your dagger so that you can, like, yeah, like, kill me if I get out of control. [00:51:02] Speaker A: I just don't know that I could be satisfied in a relationship if I'm looking. I'm keeping my head on a swivel every day, wondering if it's gonna be me that has to take him down. Which. That's what. They're basically setting it up, like, in the sparring mat. Every time he says, you'll be the death of me, only you. You have to know how to fight me. You know how to have to know how to find me and fight me and kill me and do whatever. It's just, like, the romance is gone. [00:51:25] Speaker B: Yeah. And it's so toxic like that. Those shouldn't be, like, love, and killing somebody shouldn't be, like, shoulder, shoulder to shoulder at all. Yeah. [00:51:35] Speaker A: God, yeah. There is lots of. There's lots of yuck and yum. [00:51:41] Speaker B: Is there yum? What's yum? [00:51:43] Speaker A: Oh, God. Actually, no, I'm sorry. It's mostly. [00:51:45] Speaker B: Mostly. Yeah. [00:51:46] Speaker A: No, yeah. I'm sorry. I don't know why I told you that. I have a couple of yuck moments, for sure. But I would just like to say, starting out very early now, this is, like, my page numbers on my Kindle. And this is, like, zoomed in ultra, like, big, because, you know, a girl's getting older. But on page 17 of what is of my Kindle, Violet said, this is yuck for me. This is when I knew we were going down a bad path. She goes, zaden is mine. My heart, my soul, my everything he channeled from the earth to save me. And I'll scour the world until I find a way to save him right back. [00:52:26] Speaker B: And I tell you I just can't. [00:52:29] Speaker A: I'll follow that quickly up with. On page 20. I will not die today. [00:52:33] Speaker B: Oh, my God. [00:52:34] Speaker A: I will save him. [00:52:36] Speaker B: Come on. I mean. And that continues like I have written down at. On page 404. Whatever he wants, whatever he needs, it's his. I'm his. Come on, Rebecca, not Becky. We hate it. [00:52:54] Speaker A: We hate it, girl. Clean it up. This happens on page 56. There is a. There's an intimate moment that's going on. She's like. Violet goes, damn, he knows exactly how to take me from the ground to sky fucking high in less than a handful of heartbeat feeds. No, I don't want to love a man that much. No, no, that's not even possible. [00:53:19] Speaker B: No. [00:53:20] Speaker A: God, I'm sorry. I'm just going through. Yeah. This is so bad. I don't care how he gets inside me. I only care that it's right now. Christian, now is a good time for you to invest in these books. [00:53:35] Speaker B: Buy them. They're on Libby. I mean. Okay, so that's interesting, because I thought about this. There's a phrase in this book that I just kind of can't stand. She uses it all the time, and different people say, say the phrase. So. So there's this one part where Sating goes, you're fucking soaked for me. [00:54:00] Speaker A: I highlighted that and I said, it's not gonna be me saying this on this podcast. So I'm glad that you did it. [00:54:05] Speaker B: But then this is her response. She goes. Goes, like angrily. She goes, well, the aware. [00:54:11] Speaker A: Oh, my God, the worst. She says, well, the aware. All the time. [00:54:14] Speaker B: All the time. And not only her, but I'm like, how am I supposed to feel here? Like, angry or. What's going on? That was. It was very jarring. [00:54:22] Speaker A: It was 1am when I was reading that last night. No, I was like, I'm trying to get a full eight tonight, and I'm gonna be up with nightmares of this. [00:54:29] Speaker B: Nightmares. [00:54:31] Speaker A: Oh, God. [00:54:34] Speaker B: What else? [00:54:34] Speaker A: That's page 58. This is Zaden saying, describing her as bright and hot and fucking perfect. Also on page 58, I recall the armoire cracking against my back. The sublime feel of him pounding into me hard and so damn deep. Both of us lost in the other, breathing the same heated air, living for nothing but the peak of the next thrust. [00:55:05] Speaker B: God. Oh, my God. She couldn't be more dramatic. [00:55:10] Speaker A: Is anything going on with them? Anything else? [00:55:13] Speaker B: Anything outside of that? No. [00:55:15] Speaker A: Violet. HE groans. This is page 151, Violet. HE GROANS against my mouth and I liquefy. [00:55:23] Speaker B: I hate her. Use of liquefy. I'm sorry. [00:55:26] Speaker A: There's also molten. That's another one. Liquefy, though, that takes us to new heights. [00:55:32] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:55:35] Speaker A: Oh, here we go. Speaking of. On page 151, I guess when he targets the spot he knows will turn me molten, then lingers, ensuring my complete meltdown. [00:55:45] Speaker B: Come on. I will. So, okay, so I read. I usually read it on Kindle, but I read the hard copy. [00:55:53] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:55:55] Speaker B: And I. So I just, like, would. In my notes app, on my phone, I would just put, like, a page number, and then I'd put, like, a couple words to remind me of it. But, like, throughout this, then I would also put, like, just random thoughts of mine. [00:56:09] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:56:10] Speaker B: So I was reading my notes last night, and it said, page 215, and. [00:56:18] Speaker A: I just put, what a diary entry? [00:56:22] Speaker B: I just thought, length of his hard cock. And then my next thought was, hate it. If you could talk to your dog, what would your first question be? [00:56:34] Speaker A: It's just a running tab of questions. [00:56:36] Speaker B: And then there was one where I was dying, so I. It also said, like, another one. She said, you own my soul. And then the next one was, I would love to have a giant dog. [00:56:47] Speaker A: Wrong. What? Like Clifford, where is this coming from? Like. [00:56:54] Speaker B: Like, you have to get a whole new house for him. I think I was thinking of him because I think of the dragons as, like, dogs, you know? And so I'm, like, thinking about, I would love to have a giant talking dog. [00:57:10] Speaker A: That'd be the best. [00:57:10] Speaker B: Wouldn't that be the best? [00:57:12] Speaker A: Although even A birdie at £11 is a handful. Yeah, but we'd make it work. A mess. [00:57:20] Speaker B: Clifford. [00:57:23] Speaker A: Not Clifford the Big Red dog on page 181. Wait. I am yours and you are mine. And there's no law or rule in this world or the next that will change that. It's too much. [00:57:38] Speaker B: It's really too much. [00:57:39] Speaker A: He's constantly saying, you're going to be the death of me. She's describing him as. He is the craving I'll never sate. The rush I'll never get enough of. [00:57:49] Speaker B: Oh, God. [00:57:50] Speaker A: This made me die laughing. Because I'm like, this is just poor. This is just piss poor lightweighting. Just letting you know I'm back. The words die as his gaze catches on my bare shoulders, which is all I'm pretty sure he can see, given the height of this tub. And then Zaden goes, damn. Just damn. [00:58:09] Speaker B: Oh, God. Oh, my God. [00:58:11] Speaker A: That's literally what it said. And I. I threw my head back and cackled cuz I was like, what? Page 308. It doesn't feel like it's only been six weeks since I've had all of him above me, below me, within me. [00:58:25] Speaker B: I can't stop. [00:58:26] Speaker A: It seems like it's been years. [00:58:28] Speaker B: No, you know what? Also like, there was one part in the book where she said, like, oh, his, his elbow was like touching my shoulder, you know, which is just to describe, like how tiny. [00:58:42] Speaker A: Oh, all the. There were so many references like that. [00:58:44] Speaker B: Or like he put his chin on top of my head and it's like that just is not giving the optics that you want. [00:58:52] Speaker A: I'm little but not grown. [00:58:53] Speaker B: I hate it. [00:58:55] Speaker A: Yeah. She has something else where she's like. And I, I, I pop up. I jump up and sit on the desk. [00:59:01] Speaker B: My feet are dangling. [00:59:02] Speaker A: My feet are dangling. I'm so little. [00:59:04] Speaker B: Yeah. With my light up sneakers. [00:59:06] Speaker A: Yeah. But just I'm little. But I want to let you know that on page 310, my core clinches at just how hot, how thick, how perfect he is. [00:59:15] Speaker B: Yeah. So there was like, there was one on page 411 and it says Zaden licks and lashes and sucks like he has no other plans for the night. And I was like, I hope he doesn't. [00:59:28] Speaker A: He's ill. I want to remind everyone he's infected. [00:59:31] Speaker B: My God. [00:59:33] Speaker A: On page 313, he says, I'm never giving you up. You know that, right? You had your chance to run. You should have run by. It's a restraining order. [00:59:42] Speaker B: Absolutely. Call the goddamn police. [00:59:45] Speaker A: It's a restraining order. Don't get within a thousand feet. [00:59:48] Speaker B: Oh my God. [00:59:51] Speaker A: My loyalty is to Violet. First above everything everyone else, Satan says. Then Tyrndor, then Naver. In the moments it's worthy. Usually when Violet is in red. What happened to the rest of the 107? [01:00:02] Speaker B: The children. The children. [01:00:04] Speaker A: He cares nothing about them. [01:00:05] Speaker B: No, honestly, he's never even mentioned them. Like, he talks about them all the time in the first book. And then I don't really remember for the second book, but like, he doesn't. He basically is like, I don't care. [01:00:18] Speaker A: Oh, God. There's also constant mentions in this book. A couple mentions of a swollen lip, a swollen lower lip, which slip. [01:00:29] Speaker B: The. [01:00:29] Speaker A: Ones up top, Jillian. And then drag my tongue over my swollen lower lip. I'm starved for him. And if he's ready, I'm happily willing to feast. [01:00:39] Speaker B: Oh, God, stop. I live in a plant based house, okay? [01:00:45] Speaker A: And good for you. Good for you. Because you see what's going on out here. Even When I'm not entirely me. Me. Whatever I am, still craves you, needs you, only wants you. [01:00:57] Speaker B: I seriously, like, call the police. [01:01:00] Speaker A: It's not healthy. [01:01:01] Speaker B: Let's get a social worker involved here. I mean, this is not. This is not it. [01:01:07] Speaker A: Oh, God. You already. You already did the soaked comment. [01:01:10] Speaker B: Yeah. And that was bad. [01:01:13] Speaker A: Yeah. I think I've. I think I've. I've done all I can here. [01:01:16] Speaker B: Done all you can? Yeah. Let me just see if I have anything. [01:01:20] Speaker A: It's the. [01:01:21] Speaker B: Well, the aware that I was just. Oh, so there was. And I think you and I talked about it today, and in 408, it was like. I don't know, whatever. They were like, together. And she goes, is it toxic? Maybe. Is it us? Absolutely. And I'm like, that doesn't. Like, that's not. Like it's okay to be in a toxic relationship as long as you acknowledge it. [01:01:45] Speaker A: No. [01:01:45] Speaker B: Like, PSA for anyone under 25. This isn't it. No. [01:01:50] Speaker A: Anybody. This is exactly the type of relationship that I would have been in back in 2007 and been like, he's my. He's my North Star. [01:01:58] Speaker B: Yeah, I know. He lives for me. [01:02:00] Speaker A: He's failing college. [01:02:02] Speaker B: He's. He's really failing college. [01:02:04] Speaker A: He has no plans. [01:02:05] Speaker B: He doesn't. Oh, you mean, like, who it was? Oh, I was like, Zane. Yeah. Made it through. [01:02:11] Speaker A: No, mine was not anything like, he's failing feeling. I think he got kicked out. Who knows, man? Not my proudest moment, but I'm like, I love him. It's us against all odds. [01:02:21] Speaker B: He doesn't answer any questions when you ask him how he's doing. [01:02:24] Speaker A: He knows nothing about my childhood. [01:02:26] Speaker B: No. Doesn't know if I've ever ridden a horse. [01:02:28] Speaker A: It doesn't care, really. But he will fight somebody if they get too close to me. [01:02:33] Speaker B: Oh, God, no. [01:02:36] Speaker A: The whole thing was a yuck. [01:02:38] Speaker B: Yeah. The whole thing. [01:02:38] Speaker A: A lot of. [01:02:39] Speaker B: Honestly. Yeah. I mean, she did a great job in the fourth wing, and maybe it was just because of the, like, the slow burn, but that was great. And I think she had some quality smut scenes in the second one, notably the throne scene. [01:02:55] Speaker A: There was no stirring in my loins in this book, I gotta be honest. [01:02:58] Speaker B: No, it was only cringe. [01:03:00] Speaker A: Yeah. I was not. I was not basking in it. [01:03:04] Speaker B: No. And that's why I was like, we have to go to another couple. Like, we have to go to another character. Because I just. I. I feel like it's done. [01:03:12] Speaker A: I mean, again, it seems like Rhiannon is getting it in Yep. It seems like Riddick is getting it in. However, those two, you can probably read storylines from them where they're just having a good time hooking up with people. I don't think there's, like, any, like, sort of let's get a slow burn relationship of, like, friends to lovers for Imogen and Garrick. [01:03:30] Speaker B: I do. I do love that. [01:03:31] Speaker A: Yeah, give me that. [01:03:32] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:03:33] Speaker A: Give me an. Enemies to lovers. Dane and Sloane's story, which I find that to be really interesting. I told you that I cannot do any sort of fan castings. In my mind, for whatever reason, the AI generated, like, images of characters have completely ruined things for me. But when Sloane got introduced in the last book, I don't know why I didn't think about this. But for whatever reason, I cast her in my mind's eye as JoJo Siwa. [01:03:59] Speaker B: Oh, okay. [01:04:01] Speaker A: Not fair to Sloane. [01:04:03] Speaker B: Yeah, no, it's not fair, but it's. [01:04:05] Speaker A: Just who came to mind. [01:04:07] Speaker B: Yeah. Did you have any other ones? So I had one, because we had talked about this, that, like, they are such specific. Like, it's hard when you're reading a book because you have the person in mind and it's not an actor. [01:04:19] Speaker A: Right. [01:04:20] Speaker B: Yeah. But one person I did have is Theophany. [01:04:24] Speaker A: Okay. [01:04:24] Speaker B: And maybe this is just because I, you know, she's been in a movie recently, but, like, I was like Demi Moore. [01:04:29] Speaker A: I could see it. I think that's a great choice. Yeah, I think that's a great choice. [01:04:34] Speaker B: But I really don't have anyone else. I mean, I was really trying for even. Just. And Darna's voice. I don't know. [01:04:41] Speaker A: I don't have it. [01:04:42] Speaker B: The other problem is that, like, all of these books are about, like, like early 20s, and I'm just not up on the, like, early 20s actors and actresses. [01:04:53] Speaker A: You're not gonna find me, you know, somebody who's, like, an influencer on TikTok. I just don't know who that. I don't know who that child is. [01:05:00] Speaker B: No, I mean, I'll tell you, like, oh, so and so from the OC. [01:05:03] Speaker A: Or reference to Bonnie Raitt last week. Jillian, I don't. You know, we're doing our best. I think our reference. The bad. The. The references that we've got are millennial hits. Yes. [01:05:16] Speaker B: My Brian sent us all, like a taxi or a link. [01:05:21] Speaker A: Your brother in law, Brian. [01:05:23] Speaker B: My brother in law to. He was like, does anyone else want to go to this concert? And it was Blues Traveler and Jane Blossom. [01:05:30] Speaker A: Nope. Well, first of all, I don't know Gin Blossoms. Who's Gin Blossoms? [01:05:34] Speaker B: Is that the one that's like the. Hey, Jealousy. Yeah. Yeah. Christian knows. [01:05:39] Speaker A: Yeah, Yeah. I think somewhere back there in like some reference of a song that a bar that someone has taken me to in my 36 years of life. Yeah, I've. I know. I'm familiar with that. [01:05:52] Speaker B: My. And Andrew goes. I. I would go, but if I have a full mask over my head. And then Kaylin was like, I don't know. Counting Crows was cringe enough, which I liked Counting Crows. [01:06:04] Speaker A: I told you. I was taken against my will to a Counting Crows concert some years ago. And front row seats. [01:06:11] Speaker B: Oh, God. [01:06:12] Speaker A: So imagine sitting in a concert for two and a half hours and you know one song and it was like, what was that song that he did with. They did with Vanessa Carlton or Vanessa. [01:06:21] Speaker B: Branson paradise or was that. [01:06:23] Speaker A: Yep, that's exactly it. It. And as soon as that came on, I was up out of my seat cheering and I sat right back down. [01:06:29] Speaker B: What's his name? Adam Duritz or what's his name now? [01:06:32] Speaker A: Jillian. You know better than me. You know better than ask me what that means. [01:06:37] Speaker B: But you were like right up in his face. And I don't know I would feel about that. Yeah. [01:06:40] Speaker A: I need to see if I have any pictures from that night because I was really selling it. [01:06:44] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:06:45] Speaker A: I was really selling it. Yeah. My friend's boyfriend's mom bought us two front row tickets. Cuz she really wanted to go see him that night. [01:06:54] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:06:55] Speaker A: And I'm like, listen. [01:06:56] Speaker B: Yeah, he's still touring. Yeah. Or they are. Yeah. [01:07:01] Speaker A: I think it's a one in a lifetime thing. Once in a lifetime thing for me. [01:07:04] Speaker B: Yeah. And that, I mean, I think. Yeah. So that summer I had gone to Lauryn Hill and I warned you. I know. [01:07:14] Speaker A: Here's the thing. Not because Lauryn Hill is not an artist. That is amazing and absolutely should be revered. Lauryn Hill shows up 48 hours after the tour date to actually get on stage. [01:07:24] Speaker B: Honestly, it was an hour and 45 minutes late. [01:07:26] Speaker A: Yeah. I was like, I cannot be coming down to my house in Wicker park on at like 2 in the morning. [01:07:33] Speaker B: No. [01:07:33] Speaker A: When the show was supposed to end at 11. [01:07:35] Speaker B: And honestly, she just went straight through miseducation. I mean, there was like nothing else. [01:07:40] Speaker A: Just track one through like 12. [01:07:41] Speaker B: Yes. No skips. That was it. And then she was off in like an hour and 15 minutes. Minutes. I mean, I was like, if you can do it, why not? [01:07:51] Speaker A: That's efficient. And I mean. Yeah. You're also thinking well, like, what other songs is she going to pull in? I mean, she could pull in stuff from the Fujis, but that'd be like, maybe two songs for the Ravinia crowd. I think we need to. [01:08:03] Speaker B: We need to stop showing our age. [01:08:06] Speaker A: Yeah. I think it's all relevant. [01:08:08] Speaker B: It is, it is, it is. [01:08:09] Speaker A: If you find a home here. [01:08:10] Speaker B: Welcome, welcome. Yeah, we're. We're millennials. Yeah. [01:08:15] Speaker A: Any other. Any other sort of casting, so. [01:08:18] Speaker B: No other castings. One thing I did have, I did think about, and I was like, you know, I love Bodhi. [01:08:23] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:08:24] Speaker B: And so I was thinking, like, last night, I was like, you know, he definitely owns a few Henley shirts. [01:08:29] Speaker A: Oh, absolutely. [01:08:30] Speaker B: You know. Yeah. [01:08:32] Speaker A: I want more Bodhi. I do, too, as a matter of fact. I don't want him. We should get into our. You know, you should lead us off into the theories. Yeah. I don't want bad things for him. I don't either, but I want more of him, actually. [01:08:45] Speaker B: Yeah. So I guess we'll start with. With, like, you know, just a recap on what happened. So Violet and Theophany or whatever are doing their whole thing, and Zaden. We don't see Zaden. We don't know where he is, but apparently the whole time he was called, summoned by one of his venom, Sage Berwin. I don't. I'm just talking. I'm just saying words here. [01:09:06] Speaker A: It's Berwin. [01:09:07] Speaker B: Berwin. [01:09:08] Speaker A: Okay. Another name that I had to look up because I was like, is this. Is this a basketball y. Teacher? What's going on? [01:09:14] Speaker B: And I think he was. It was. He was supposed to have died, but he. He didn't actually die. So Zaden basically did, like, the. Whatever, the feeding of the Earth and thought he killed him, but he hadn't. Yeah, stop. [01:09:29] Speaker A: Sorry. I'm just looking across the microphones at Chile and laughing because I'm like, we're talking about this on a Tuesday night. We are. We are. [01:09:35] Speaker B: Tuesday night, 7:37. [01:09:37] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:09:39] Speaker B: So anyway, he's, like, with the Venon teacher or whatever, and they have. [01:09:46] Speaker A: Which. [01:09:46] Speaker B: It kind of like, it destroyed me when they caught the dragons of the net. [01:09:51] Speaker A: Yeah, that was the. [01:09:52] Speaker B: So they caught Tarn, but Taryn got free. And then they caught Scale, and so he was. Zaden was, like, trying to save her, and so he had to do the onyx storm or whatever, like, feed from the earth. Again, I don't really understand the details. [01:10:07] Speaker A: But we don't need. Semantics. We don't need. Yeah. [01:10:11] Speaker B: So. And then he sees in the cave that they're in ridiculous. 7:37 on February 11, 2025. [01:10:21] Speaker A: The cave. [01:10:21] Speaker B: So anyway, he's in the cave and he sees somebody who had also turned Venin. And it's. It's kind of like we're presuming that he. [01:10:31] Speaker A: I'm sorry, I'm like. I completely, like, miss the fact that they were in a cave. I thought this person that had turned was like, down in the pits. [01:10:38] Speaker B: Oh, no. You were like, I don't know where we are. Not the cave. [01:10:47] Speaker A: Not Basquiat. Where are we? [01:10:50] Speaker B: We're in Dreyfus in a cave. [01:10:54] Speaker A: We're unbreal. [01:10:59] Speaker B: Oh, my God. But actually, wait, who was it that. It was Panchak. General Panchak that had, like, betrayed them. So do you remember that? [01:11:11] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:11:11] Speaker B: So anyway, so that there was somebody. [01:11:13] Speaker A: Else standing there, wasn't he? [01:11:16] Speaker B: Yeah. And he was killed. [01:11:17] Speaker A: Okay. [01:11:19] Speaker B: But he had, like, given secrets or whatever. And so anyway, so. So what happens is then, you know, obviously Zayden's like, I can't believe he turned for me. Like, after seeing me for all of these months, like, struggling. But then they never reveal who the he is. And Zaden is like, full venon. But there is something weird about, like, he hears Violet. He hears Violet. And so, like, he saves a piece of his soul. [01:11:50] Speaker A: It's very Harry Potter as the onyx is going out into the world. It's just peeling away every part of Xaden's soul. But he's like, saving parts of himself for Violet. I think so, yeah. [01:12:02] Speaker B: So that was my question. I was thinking. I was like, so I know you didn't read Harry Potter, but there was this whole thing about, like, Horcruxes, which is like, if you heard this. [01:12:12] Speaker A: Yes. [01:12:13] Speaker B: So that's what I was like. Is. Is Zaden in her engagement ring? Like, part of his soul? [01:12:20] Speaker A: Yeah, maybe I could see that. [01:12:22] Speaker B: So anyway, so what happens is that. [01:12:25] Speaker A: But that it's just so interesting because. Because that stone, they had mentioned it earlier when she came back, you remember it was missing. She went to the bath chamber and Rebecca made a note. [01:12:35] Speaker B: Yes, Well, I mean, I read about this, and Rebecca, apparently. So they asked her. I don't know where it was, but they basically were like, did he mean, did he want to propose? As if Rebecca knows. But no, she was like, yeah, he intended to. So I think he had already thought about that and maybe got her ring made. [01:12:57] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:12:58] Speaker B: But anyway, so it's revealed. She. In my mind, Imogen is pulling her in a sled up to the house, and she's totally unconscious and Then she wakes up, and she's married, and she doesn't remember it, which is, like, so problematic. [01:13:17] Speaker A: But that's so interesting, because I don't think I'd really thought about, like, what people experience with Imogen. Wonder wipes their memory. [01:13:25] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:13:26] Speaker A: Because I've been thinking, like, are they just sitting here operating like you and I are? And then it's like a moment, like, with Men in Black, when they, like, put that. That, like, I don't know, that light, and they say, just look here, and it flashes, and the person's, like, memory from, like, the last day is erased. You know, like, I'm like, do they go to sleep? Or is it a mem. Is it a moment where Imin just, like, stands there and, like, wipes their memory for, like, a certain amount of time and, like, they've been there the whole time? [01:13:49] Speaker B: I think that's. Yeah. So. Because he. She would do that for Jack. She would. They would go and have a whole conversation, and then she would just wipe that memory. So my thinking on that is that something went down. [01:14:01] Speaker A: Okay. [01:14:02] Speaker B: You know, they decided to get married or whatever, and then Imogen wasn't there because one of the things that they, you know, talk about is the reason that he would have had her memory erased is so that she. If she gets interrogated, she wouldn't, like, reveal where he is. [01:14:17] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:14:19] Speaker B: So my thinking was that they did their thing, they got married, and then she somehow found im and was like, I'm not going to tell you what happened, but just erase my memory. Does that make sense? [01:14:31] Speaker A: It would make sense under the. The, you know, the expectation that, like, through this entire thing, it's like, protect Zaden. Protect, you know, whatever. [01:14:40] Speaker B: Right. Yeah. Under, like, the marked one act. Yeah. [01:14:44] Speaker A: Yeah. They're going to do whatever they can to protect him. [01:14:48] Speaker B: But, I mean, the big question then, I guess the big question is, like, why are they married? And then the big question is, like, who is this new brother? So who turned Venom? [01:14:56] Speaker A: And the biggest theories are Brennan, Bodhi, Garrick. Those are. Well, and Imogen's in there, too. I would say those are top. Probably the top four names that I've seen. [01:15:07] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, I honestly have even seen Eric. [01:15:10] Speaker A: I've seen Eric, and I've seen Riddick. I don't think it's Riddick, though. You can count Riddick out, because Riddick's only known for, like, the last, like, two weeks or whatever, whenever they were on that aisle. Brennan definitely knows because he's been trying to heal him. [01:15:25] Speaker B: Right. And so that was kind of the thing about Brennan. [01:15:28] Speaker A: I still don't trust Brennan number one. [01:15:30] Speaker B: No, I think he's been Vennon all along. Yeah. I mean, or I wouldn't be surprised. But there's something about him yet. It's like, so either him or Naolin, like one of them is bad, you know. So which one it was? I, I or is. I don't know. But yeah, I mean, I think with him it was. He. Zayden had said, oh, my new brother and brother was in italicized and then people were like, oh, does or no? He said something about, oh, is he gonna use another sibling against me? And so people were like, oh, it's cause it's violent. Violet's sibling, Brennan is. So that's why they were thinking it is. It was Brennan. [01:16:11] Speaker A: Oh, that's interesting. [01:16:12] Speaker B: Yeah. I think it's Bode though. I mean, because she said that it's somebody who wasn't happy with like their role in things, which was Bodhi. [01:16:21] Speaker A: But it could be Brennan not being happy, playing a support role in this whole revolution, you know? [01:16:27] Speaker B: Yeah, that's true. Yeah. I mean. Yeah. The only other weird thing is that when she said. Or he said Zaden was like, it's I the last person I would expect, which we talked about, it was like that would point to Garrick because he would never. But I feel like Brandon or it would. [01:16:44] Speaker A: In my mind, I thought Dane, because I'm like, Dane is such a rule follower. [01:16:48] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [01:16:49] Speaker A: That I wouldn't think that he would do this in order to like fight from within, essentially. You know what I mean? [01:16:55] Speaker B: Yeah. I don't know. I mean, I'm torn because part of me wants it to be Bodhi because we'll see more of him. Him, but part of me doesn't cuz I want him to be like a new. I want him to have like a love interest and not, you know, be out whatever doing whatever with. I don't know. I mean, honestly, maybe she doesn't even know. [01:17:15] Speaker A: Yeah, maybe she doesn't even. Oh, no, we're probably going to get another book in a year, so. [01:17:19] Speaker B: Well, that's what I think too. I mean, people were like, oh, it's going to be like 2027. And the way she's been turning them out. No, it's going to be one year. [01:17:27] Speaker A: No, it's been. I mean, I've lived in Chicago three years and she's piled three books out in that time. Two came out in 2023, didn't they? [01:17:36] Speaker B: Yeah, like pretty close. Together. So I would. I would put it about the same time. Wait, came out in January? Yeah, I would put it probably January or February next year. [01:17:46] Speaker A: Probably. [01:17:46] Speaker B: Definitely, yeah. Any. Any other theories? [01:17:51] Speaker A: There was. The most highlighted part in the book I came across was the moment in which Sloan channels energy from Dane into Brennan. While Brennan is trying to mend Mira. After she is, her throat is slashed by. [01:18:08] Speaker B: Oh, God. [01:18:09] Speaker A: That was, like, theophany. [01:18:10] Speaker B: That was too much for me. [01:18:10] Speaker A: It was a lot. And what was interesting was Sloan looked down at Dane's arm and there's, like, these gray hand splotches on his arm, which I didn't. I was like, what is that? Like, where did that come from? But everybody here in the Internet is like, well, he. Back when they were trying to fire the Wardstone and Jack Barlow came in, he touched Dane and started to drain him. So that's a little bit of markings. And Sloan was like, I don't want to be that. I don't want that. So there's a fear there of, I think, think being like Venin and draining people of their energy. And Dane says a really sweet thing to Sloan in that moment. He's like, you are. You know, you're not Venin. You are life. You are a weapon. Like, you give life. Essentially, like, giving her, like, this really, like, thing. I was like, I don't know. It's setting up a little. [01:19:04] Speaker B: It is, yeah. And then there was, like, a whole thing with, like, I don't know, she, like. I don't know what it was. There was something earlier with the two of them. [01:19:12] Speaker A: Yeah, well, it was. Yes, there was. I think they were, like, doing the signet sparring back and forth, I think. [01:19:22] Speaker B: Oh, right. [01:19:22] Speaker A: And Violet, in her internal monologue was like. She's looking at him, and I can't tell if she wants to fight him. And then all of a sudden, she gets cut off and because she's about to say. Or if she wants to, and somebody else. [01:19:32] Speaker B: Fuck. Oh, okay. Okay. [01:19:34] Speaker A: All right. [01:19:35] Speaker B: We hear it. Rebecca. [01:19:36] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. So there's something going on there. But anyway, in that scene where she moves energy from Dane to Brennan to help Mira, when she takes her hand off of both of them, there's no mark. [01:19:47] Speaker B: There's no mark. Yeah. Which wouldn't that indicate that Sloan is. Or No, I have no idea. [01:19:54] Speaker A: That's not what the Internet is necessarily saying. [01:19:56] Speaker B: Okay. [01:19:56] Speaker A: But, I mean, somebody could turn it into a theory, I'm sure. [01:20:00] Speaker B: Right. [01:20:00] Speaker A: But it is weird. I mean, it's weird because Violet said it was weird. Violet called it out when she. [01:20:08] Speaker B: I enjoyed it. [01:20:09] Speaker A: I did too. I saw one theory too. About. About Andarna coming back. We don't talk. We're not talking enough about that. She comes back at the end scene to protect or to take out Theophany. Cause Theophany's trapped in the darkness and she bumps into. She bumps into Andarna. Right. Like, as she's like walking around. [01:20:31] Speaker B: Right, right. And I mean, the weird thing about that is like, they spent this whole book being like, oh, let's cure Zaden. Like, we're gonna go on this quest and we're gonna find the cure. And then like they never did, but then they never talk about it either. I mean, they're just sort of like, oh, he's turning. Oh my God. And she's like, I'm doing everything possible. And I'm like, no, you're not. Like, you're just in the room with him. [01:20:52] Speaker A: They're like, it's not in the budget for fiscal year 25. [01:20:57] Speaker B: Oh my God. [01:20:59] Speaker A: It's not in the budget. We're not gonna be able to do that. We're gonna have to deprioritize this as a thing. But I did see one theory today, basically being like just talking about how the Irids or what we've seen with Indarna in time and being able to manip. Time in that they think that Indarna might possibly have flown away to that den on the isle to get all of her teachings, but in the way that they manipulate time, she has actually been gone for years in what feels like a day or two or in what feels like a week or so to us. So in her world, it's expanded so many days and she's gotten all the teachings and the learnings that she needs. Needs. And she's come back in this present moment on the continent to help fight the war. So like, what is a week in our time or what's time on the continent? They've stretched out over years in the continent. [01:21:55] Speaker B: I mean, that would have been helpful for Violet to know when she left, but you know. [01:21:59] Speaker A: Yeah. Like, what's going on with these two? [01:22:02] Speaker B: Yeah, well, that would be. I would like that. Yeah. [01:22:04] Speaker A: Yeah. That's a good, like little feel good theory. Yeah, there's lots of theories to choose from. The Internet is a very creative place. So I'm, you know, just going to spend a little bit more time. [01:22:14] Speaker B: Yeah, know, me too. I mean, people have done their research, you know. Yeah. They really. [01:22:19] Speaker A: They know what's going on. There's people Doing, like, their second, third read through, looking for all the Easter eggs. [01:22:25] Speaker B: I know. [01:22:25] Speaker A: And they're dedicated. [01:22:27] Speaker B: I mean, I wonder if Mikey's read it again. [01:22:30] Speaker A: I wouldn't doubt it. [01:22:31] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:22:32] Speaker A: I wouldn't doubt it. You know, he can read something in about two days. No, that's. That's too long. He can read something about afternoon. [01:22:39] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure. [01:22:40] Speaker A: And meanwhile, I'm like, I. I don't. [01:22:43] Speaker B: Want to pick this up again. [01:22:44] Speaker A: Like, carve out a week. [01:22:45] Speaker B: I can't deal with Violet and Zaden. I just can't do it. [01:22:49] Speaker A: I'm tired of them. I'm over them now. [01:22:52] Speaker B: Y. [01:22:52] Speaker A: Break up. [01:22:54] Speaker B: Honestly. Yeah. I think that I would like that. [01:22:58] Speaker A: Like, give me some tension. [01:22:59] Speaker B: Just, like, get with Bod. Although. No, I. I don't want boat. I want. I don't want that for Bodie. [01:23:03] Speaker A: Want Bodie to die. [01:23:05] Speaker B: No, no, no. [01:23:06] Speaker A: We do need more from Bod. Bod is giving me Asriel energy from the. [01:23:13] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:23:14] Speaker A: Court of Thorns and roses. [01:23:15] Speaker B: Yeah. And Garrick gives a little bit Cassian energy because he's supposed to be, like, kind of, like, hulky and. [01:23:22] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. You're not a Cassian girly. We'll get to that, though. [01:23:26] Speaker B: Not a Cassian girly. No. [01:23:29] Speaker A: Yeah, we try. [01:23:31] Speaker B: Yeah, we do. [01:23:33] Speaker A: I think that's it for me. [01:23:35] Speaker B: Yeah. So what do you think about next time? What book are we gonna read? [01:23:40] Speaker A: I think we're gonna read Quicksilver. It is a book that, I don't know, I've been seeing a lot of talk about on the Internet. Booktok. Quicksilver by Callie Hart. [01:23:53] Speaker B: Okay. [01:23:54] Speaker A: It's a standalone book. We can easily read that and talk about it during our next episode. But, yeah, we're. We're going to release this episode, and then it's going to be off to the races. [01:24:04] Speaker B: Off to the races. Happy Valentine's Day. Happy Valentine's Day. Galentine's Day. [01:24:09] Speaker A: Yes. [01:24:10] Speaker B: To all who celebrate and. Yeah, I think that's it. [01:24:14] Speaker A: All right, well, thank you to Christian McCann for listening to us yap about all things dragons and shadow daddies and toxic relationships. We love it. [01:24:24] Speaker B: Y. [01:24:26] Speaker A: And as always, thank you to the illustrious Lincoln Lodge here in Chicago, Chago. [01:24:30] Speaker B: For recording us and putting up with us. [01:24:32] Speaker A: Yeah. Putting a roof over our head. We really appreciate it. And to you, the listener, thank you for joining us. [01:24:38] Speaker B: Thank you for joining us. [01:24:39] Speaker A: And, yeah, we'll see you soon. [01:24:41] Speaker B: We'll see you soon. Bye.