I Hope You’re Not Afraid of the Dark

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. Hi and welcome to Spellbound, a Romantasy podcast. I'm Deidre. [00:00:15] Speaker B: And I'm Jillian. [00:00:16] Speaker A: Thanks for joining us. [00:00:17] Speaker B: How are you? [00:00:18] Speaker A: I'm well. How are you? [00:00:19] Speaker B: I'm good. How's this week been? [00:00:21] Speaker A: It's been good. It's been. It's been a long week. Like Monday. I was talking to somebody this week and they were like, I was already done with this week on Monday. And I was like, girl, truer words have never been spoken. [00:00:32] Speaker B: I was done last Friday. [00:00:34] Speaker A: I've been done since, I don't know, December 2024. Not feeling it, but on the upswing. It's daylight savings time this weekend. [00:00:44] Speaker B: Yes. [00:00:44] Speaker A: So we get more light. That does something to my spirit. [00:00:46] Speaker B: It really does. [00:00:47] Speaker A: Like already coming in here tonight and it's like 5:30 and the sun is up. I feel full of possibilities. [00:00:53] Speaker B: Yeah. It puts a spring in my stomach. [00:00:56] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. The world is full of terrors, but I'm having a good time, thank God. Have you been enjoying anything? Any pop culture, Anything that's, you know. [00:01:06] Speaker B: Well, I. I mean, the Academy Awards is great. Very good. Yeah. [00:01:11] Speaker A: It's full of surprises. [00:01:12] Speaker B: Full of surprises. Yeah. I mean, there are some upsets. I mean, my favorite part, obviously was the Wicked at the beginning. Cynthia Revo. Beautiful. Yeah, she was. I mean, they were both like, dressed to the nines. [00:01:24] Speaker A: Can you imagine waking up every day and just having one. Either of those voices or can you. [00:01:30] Speaker B: Imagine having one of those voices, like, lull you to sleep? [00:01:34] Speaker A: Well, you do, because you listen to the Wicked soundtrack pretty often. [00:01:37] Speaker B: I do. [00:01:40] Speaker A: So you know what that reality's like. Yeah, that was a good show. A little bit of a boring production for sure, but the winds were keeping me on my toes. [00:01:48] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, I was reading something about and Conan O'Brien. Like, I think some of his stuff fell. Some of it was like campy. But I was reading something. It was like, this is the most thankless job in Hollywood. So he did okay. [00:02:01] Speaker A: He did okay. And I. I appreciate Conan O'Brien. [00:02:03] Speaker B: Yeah, I do. [00:02:04] Speaker A: I thought he did a great job. Adrien Brody is. Sweetheart, let's wrap it up. Yeah, let's wrap it up. There's no reason you should have the longest acceptance speech. [00:02:13] Speaker B: And he was angry. It was like Angry Men are in. And this is. This is what he's giving. [00:02:18] Speaker A: He does not have a good history of Oscar win behavior. [00:02:22] Speaker B: No, he does not. No. [00:02:24] Speaker A: And like, what is going on? I thought that we would have like, learned our lesson from the first time he won an Oscar back in the early 2000s, when he absolutely just took Halle Berry in his arms and kissed her without any consent. [00:02:36] Speaker B: Any consent. Yeah. [00:02:38] Speaker A: But this time he just came through with just a new act and it wasn't popular. [00:02:43] Speaker B: It's like, adrienne, did you not watch the Oval Office meeting on Friday? Like, we don't want this. [00:02:49] Speaker A: Nobody wants this. [00:02:51] Speaker B: It's apparently, it was like, a record for how long an Oscar speech? [00:02:55] Speaker A: Yeah, it's the longest Oscar speech in. In history. It's like 5 minutes and 45 seconds or something like that. Just droning on, and it's like, guy, we want to give you your flowers. We're happy for you. We're proud of you, but let's wrap it up. [00:03:08] Speaker B: But he didn't, like, say anything. Like, it's not like he was, like, profound in any way? [00:03:12] Speaker A: No. Nobody. No. I see no sort of think pieces about all the things that he packed in into such a long speech. [00:03:18] Speaker B: Yeah, it sort of was like, bro, cuz, go sit down. [00:03:21] Speaker A: And I think that we're a little bit tied to the memory of him throwing his used gum at his girlfriend. [00:03:28] Speaker B: Oh, God. [00:03:28] Speaker A: Gross. [00:03:29] Speaker B: That was so gross. I mean, I can't even speak. [00:03:36] Speaker A: I hope she's okay. I hope people are checking on her. I hope she's fine. [00:03:40] Speaker B: I really. [00:03:41] Speaker A: But I would be horrified for the next day when people are talking about Oscar highlights, to be the girlfriend who is, like, excitedly jumping out of her chair to catch the chewed gum of my boyfriend who's going up on stage. [00:03:56] Speaker B: Well, I gotta say, she's probably used to shame because she was married to Harvey Weinstein. [00:04:00] Speaker A: So that's a fun fact you shared with me this week. And I was like, yeah, no, sister. [00:04:05] Speaker B: Wait, did she catch the gum? [00:04:07] Speaker A: I think. I think it bounced away or out of her hand. I don't know. It was rogue. It was a wayward piece of gum. Yeah. It shouldn't have happened. [00:04:15] Speaker B: No, it shouldn't have. [00:04:16] Speaker A: Tuck that. Like any good American. Tuck that shit down in your gum and get through it. [00:04:21] Speaker B: Swallow it. Yeah. I mean, you're at the Oscars. Swallow your goddamn gum. [00:04:25] Speaker A: Get through it. Just figure it out. Be an adult. Just a very weird showing by Adrienne Brody overall, in the vein of movies and Hollywood hits. [00:04:37] Speaker B: Yes. [00:04:39] Speaker A: I wanted to tell you that I tried my hand this week at watching the 2016 film Fallen. [00:04:46] Speaker B: Okay. Who's in that? [00:04:48] Speaker A: Can't tell you. As a matter of fact, I can't even tell you how it ends. It's a 2016 film based on the 2009 novel of the same name. [00:04:57] Speaker B: Okay. [00:04:57] Speaker A: It's on Netflix. I started to watch it because it was giving me Romanasy realness, and I was like, let me watch a film other than Twilight. Yeah. Harry Potter's Romance, but fantasy and something that I might like. And, you know, in terms of. In terms of the film, there's a lot of. I don't know. There was just a lot of. Basically, it was based on fallen angels. There's immortality. There is faded, you know, faded mates. People coming around every 17 years to, like, find their love story again. It was 100% a mess. [00:05:39] Speaker B: Was it? [00:05:39] Speaker A: I could not get past 50% of the film. There's no notable names in it, except for. There's Jolie Richardson, which I was very surprised to see her in, or to find her in this film because she's been in a number of notable projects. [00:05:51] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:05:51] Speaker A: But also the ex. The ex wife. Ex partner of Jeremy Allen White is the main character. Is the main female character. [00:06:01] Speaker B: Okay. [00:06:01] Speaker A: It's a terrible film. It just kept. I don't know what the algorithm for my Netflix is, but it just kept being suggested. It's taken a year off my life having just even attempted it. [00:06:13] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. No, I don't like it. [00:06:15] Speaker A: So if it's coming up in your carousel, it's a hard skip. Yeah, that's my recommendation. [00:06:20] Speaker B: I don't. I don't think I've seen. I don't think I've seen that. I've been getting a lot of, like, you know, I watch the Night Agent and the. Whatever, the recruit. They're so dumb. But, like, you know, so I've been getting a lot of those. [00:06:30] Speaker A: Are you watching. Are you pressing play? [00:06:32] Speaker B: I'm pressing play. And, you know, I. I next, I want to watch Black Dove. [00:06:35] Speaker A: Oh, I started that. It's very good. It's very good. Yeah. Okay. Look at you. You're, like, dipping your toe out here. [00:06:42] Speaker B: I know. And some action. [00:06:44] Speaker A: I love that. What you need to do, as Christian and I have told you to do, is get started into the John Wick universe. Get in there. There's gonna be a new film. You know that, Christian? There's gonna be, like, a girl who. It's. It's like a side story. [00:06:57] Speaker B: I did see that. [00:06:58] Speaker A: Who. It's like. It's like a. It's like a new character in the John Wick universe. When is that coming? It's coming out in June, I think. Yes. What is the main female character's name? [00:07:11] Speaker B: I, like, wasn't even paying attention. And then I Saw his face and I was like, let's, let's go. [00:07:15] Speaker A: Absolutely. It's called Ballerina. Oh. So you know what that's about? It's in the vein because he like comes from like, I don't know, like this Russian kind of crime family and they've got their hands like the ballet. Yeah, he's like adopted, I think. [00:07:29] Speaker B: I think I have to brush up on my John Wick. [00:07:31] Speaker A: Get in there, get in there. [00:07:33] Speaker B: One through five or how many? [00:07:34] Speaker A: One through four. Yeah, he's global and he's just kicking ass and killing everybody. I mean indiscriminately. [00:07:42] Speaker B: Yeah, he's a global sensation. The actor is absolutely. God, we need more piano. [00:07:49] Speaker A: Yeah. In this day and age. Sure do. [00:07:52] Speaker B: Well, let's get into it. So is there. Was there any romantasy news this week or. [00:07:59] Speaker A: Yes, as a matter of fact there were. There were a couple of really great articles that I came across this week. One is an article called are Book boyfriends filling the Modern Dating Void in Elle magazine. An article written by Rebecca Mitchell. And before we get into this, I just have to ask you, do you remember your first book boyfriend? [00:08:19] Speaker B: So I mean, the first book boyfriend or the first romantasy book boyfriend? [00:08:24] Speaker A: I want to know just about. Just purely first book boyfriend. [00:08:27] Speaker B: Okay. Um, so I love. There's this book called Ella Enchanted and it's a. It's like a nightmare of a movie with Anne Hathaway. [00:08:35] Speaker A: But it is a millennial classic. [00:08:37] Speaker B: It is a millennial classic. So that whoever that prince was, I loved him. And I think also this is so sad, but I mean, I was like a Jane Austen girly. [00:08:46] Speaker A: I knew this was coming. [00:08:47] Speaker B: Uh huh. So whatever his name is, Darcy, I. [00:08:50] Speaker A: Loved this article mentions that how Darcy was a book boyfriend for many people. I personally never really had any book boyfriends or crushes. Not that I can necessarily remember. Nothing that stands out in my mind. But you know, about a little over a year ago when I started getting into the romance genre just broadly. [00:09:09] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:09:09] Speaker A: What got me into it, my first, my first real book boyfriend was a character. No, you don't know. I'm gonna say because I was talking about him. But like, you know, I moved on because I found other books. My first one though, there's nothing like your first love was a character named Charlie Lastra and Emily. [00:09:29] Speaker B: Emily Henry. [00:09:29] Speaker A: Emily. Thank you, Emily. Henry's book book lovers. He's like a little bit of a curmudgeon at first, but he's like a. He's like a literary agent. He moves Home to North Carolina to help, like, help out his family and his parents. And he and the main female character end up falling in love, addicted to him. Any of the men that she writes I'm kind of falling in love with. But then, you know, like, also top of my list is Elliot Petropoulos. [00:09:54] Speaker B: Love him. Oh my God. [00:09:57] Speaker A: That's how I got you on that book. [00:09:59] Speaker B: I know. [00:09:59] Speaker A: I was like the first one for him. I know. So the. Basically this article is, you know, really just talking about how romantic novels in this day and age are filling the void for what is otherwise a terrible real life dating experience. Right, people? Yes, exactly. And so is women. And basically anyone reading these books essentially are finding there is a book boyfriend for essentially every kink that you can imagine. So they mentioned, you know, our beloved characters like Zaden. There's Rhysand. There's also the mention of Draco Malfoy. [00:10:35] Speaker B: Did not know he was a boyfriend. [00:10:37] Speaker A: Let me just mention this. There was a couple years ago I was traveling to. [00:10:41] Speaker B: Oh, I remember. [00:10:43] Speaker A: And I don't know how the fate smiled on me while I was in this trip. Or didn't. Or it didn't. Or didn't. Whether. However you want to look at it. But all of a sudden I was coming back to my hotel room, it was like three in the morning, and I look down at my phone and I got a notification. I had been accepted into the Raya universe, the Raya dating app universe. I had, yeah, I'd been chosen. I made it. I made, I was, I made it, baby. I was living large. And so of course I get on there to see like what all the hype is about, see what the options are, see what London's talking about. One of the first people, if not the first profiles that popped up was the actor who plays Draco Malfoy. What is his name? [00:11:28] Speaker B: I don't know. But like, that would have been amazing if he was like Draco on the, on his dating app. [00:11:33] Speaker A: It was like, girl, it basically what he was giving was, you know who I am. [00:11:37] Speaker B: Right? [00:11:38] Speaker A: But I'm not gonna say it, but I mean, you know who I am. [00:11:40] Speaker B: It's like, dude, sorry, this is. But like you probably have a net worth of like $2 million, you know. [00:11:44] Speaker A: And what is crazy is I was going to see him in a play the next night. Oh, God. Which is so crazy. Yeah, okay. He was in really good. He was in a really good play that I had gone to see. But yeah, essentially what was so funny about him too is that he put his profile Just looking for friends. So at least he was putting his fuckboy intentions right out there for the world to see. But yeah, when I read this article, I was like, oh, that's interesting. But, you know, basically, you know, there's a shout out to how Sarah J. Moss knows a thing or two about writing a good book boyfriend. Nobody's stopping her. Nobody's stopping her. But there is a book talk creator, a creator, Fria Valerio, who is quoted as saying, when a woman writes a man, there is no doubt they will be better in fiction than in real life. Fictional men set a whole new and sometimes unrealistic standard. And that's just kind of where we are, a couple of other facts and figures just Talking that by 2020, it was revealed that women produce more books than men compared to 1970, when only a third of published authors were women. So, you know, I think in some of the other research it's also been found that women read more than men. So no shock there. [00:12:56] Speaker B: No shock there. Can we talk about that? So I was recently watching a standup show, and it's a famous comedian I won't talk about. I won't, you know, mention the name, but he was like, I, you know, I don't read. And it was. There was like tons of laughter. And he's like, there just too many words. [00:13:13] Speaker A: No. [00:13:14] Speaker B: And there was like tons of laughter. And I was like, this is really like a microcosm of the moment that we were going through. [00:13:21] Speaker A: How is it funny for nobody to read? [00:13:23] Speaker B: Oh, my God. He was like, I wish there would be a blank page in there. [00:13:26] Speaker A: And I'm like, people, have we stopped a question? If he can read. [00:13:30] Speaker B: Children have, have, have words. They have to read. [00:13:33] Speaker A: Oh, my God. [00:13:34] Speaker B: I know, that's. That's a good point. [00:13:36] Speaker A: Can he read? [00:13:36] Speaker B: I don't know. [00:13:37] Speaker A: Is he just learning by sound? [00:13:39] Speaker B: I mean, I hope so. I hope you can read. [00:13:41] Speaker A: You never know. [00:13:42] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:13:44] Speaker A: And in probably about 20 years, none of these kids will be able to read. No, let's not talk about them. But essentially just, you know, the article itself is just really talking about how this, this genre is just creating a really slight safe space for women to explore their, you know, their, their sexuality, their fantasies. Talking a little bit too about how it creates communities and a safe haven and outlet for young women where the values between especially heterosexual men and women are growing oppositional and we're experiencing rampant misogyny and, and patriarchal violence. Yes, it is. These books are a bit of a salve. So, Yeah, I thought that that Was a really interesting article. Obviously I'm Cliff's notes there, but that's a good one. [00:14:32] Speaker B: Nice. [00:14:32] Speaker A: And then another one was an article called in USA Today, no Longer guilty how romance books have changed Readers attitudes towards sex in real life. And so basically, the article starts out saying there can be very much pretentiousness when we talk about our love of romance novels and we hear things like, I need to read something with a little bit more substance, or we feel like we might need to just explain or qualify the books a little bit more. And so, you know, there's an author in here, Anna Wong, who has written the book Twisted and Kings of Sin series. But she asked the question of why is it only that the substantive books are the ones that are sad and challenging? Which I agree. It's like, why? Why do I need to come home and read War and Peace to impress somebody that I'm actually doing something that's like, substantive and valid and valuable? You know what I mean? Yeah. So she goes on to say a lot of genres enjoyed by women tend to be dismissed when to her sexuality is one of the most natural things in the world, and she thinks a lot of it is rooted in misogyny. And that misogyny can be internalized. So much so that many readers of this genre can discover romance after years of turning their noses up at it. Which was me. Absolutely. I was like, now listen, for sure, I need. I need to be serious here. But, you know, once you open that door, you can't turn back closing it. Yeah, no, absolutely. But she makes an interesting point here, especially I think, in the sense of romantasy. But she's. She mentions how fairy smut or dragon smut, quote unquote. You don't really see those terms connected to fantasy books with sex that are written by male authors, like Game of thrones by George R.R. martin, which I think is very, very true. Yeah, there's lots of sex going on in those books, but you don't hear anybody talking about, oh, like you reading about your fairies fucking or are you reading your dragon porn? Like, nobody, like, labels it in that way to kind of dismiss it. [00:16:33] Speaker B: Okay. [00:16:34] Speaker A: Which I think is very true. But just talking about the power of romance books, you know, they offer important lessons about communication and trust. You know, there's even mention in here about how it is a direct counterpoint to porn culture. [00:16:52] Speaker B: Okay. Yeah. [00:16:52] Speaker A: So I thought that that was really interesting. And then just sort of the prioritization, female pleasure and, you know, female characters being in control of their pleasure and Emboldened to explore it and male characters that are a little bit more complex and then, you know, even for, I think, marginalized readers, queer readers, you know, people that are maybe older, not necessarily the 20 year old main characters that are written or even, you know, black and brown women specifically, are them being written about is a little bit of a form of, you know, it's just, it's a, it's a counterpoint to most of the. The books that are being written out there. So it's, it's an act of resistance, so to speak. So very interesting article in USA Today that I thought tied well into this week's episode. [00:17:41] Speaker B: Yeah, I love that. That's really interesting. [00:17:43] Speaker A: A couple minutes, check those out. [00:17:45] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, go ahead. [00:17:47] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, if nothing else, we'll get into the book of this week. This week we are talking about Quicksilver by Cali hart. Released in June 2024, this is the first book in Cali's Fae and alchemy series. But it is very important to note that she's authored over 40 other contemporary and dark Romans. [00:18:09] Speaker B: I didn't realize. [00:18:10] Speaker A: Yeah, she's been, she's been putting in work. [00:18:12] Speaker B: She's busy. [00:18:12] Speaker A: Absolutely. Originally from England, she is currently partying in the usa. As much as one can do in this day and age. Who knows? Per an interview with the nerd daily in December 2024. When asked where the inspiration for Quicksilver came from, Callie shared that she's always been fascinated by the concept of alchemy and transmutation and wanted to create a story that revolved around that at its center. She notes that our main characters, Kingfisher and Saris, came to her first and she couldn't really shake them. The rest of the story, the worlds and challenges, et cetera, soon followed after. [00:18:50] Speaker B: Okay, that's cool. I love, like reading about how that happens, like what that writing process is like. [00:18:55] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:18:56] Speaker B: Some people, like, think of it in high school and then the characters just stay with them and that's cool. [00:19:02] Speaker A: That's interesting. Do you think that's a. Do you think that's any form of a mental imbalance or a mental thing with characters that kind of stick with you for a number of years until you get them out on a page? I'm asking for your professional opinion. [00:19:15] Speaker B: Okay. Is it like, indicative of like a psychosis? [00:19:19] Speaker A: Yeah, something. [00:19:20] Speaker B: What do you think it might be indicative of? A complex, not necessarily a psychosis. Yeah. [00:19:25] Speaker A: Interesting. We should dig deeper into that. [00:19:27] Speaker B: We should, we should. Okay. So according to Callie Hart's website, this is kind of the brief report of what the book is about. So in the land of the unforgiving desert, there isn't much a girl wouldn't do for a glass of water. So basically she lives in this area. Our girl Saris, who's 24, lives in this like kind of low SES, I guess I would say, without access to a lot of water. So she does a lot of like, kind of pickpocketing and, and stealing of water. But she also has these like strange powers that she possesses and she doesn't really know what they are. It's. It's. It seems like it's manipulating silver or metal. [00:20:13] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:20:15] Speaker B: But a secret's like a knot. Sooner or later it's bound to come undone. So when Seras comes face to face with death himself, she inadvertently reopens a gateway between realms and is transported to a land of ice and snow. Ooh, and there's Fae there. There's Fae. [00:20:34] Speaker A: We got Fae. [00:20:35] Speaker B: So the Fae have always been the stuff of myth, of legend. She read about them in books when she was little, but it turns out they're real. And Serris has landed herself right in the middle of a centuries long conflict that might get her killed. There's always a centuries long conflict. [00:20:50] Speaker A: Always a centuries long conflict. And she's. And they're always getting in the middle of it. [00:20:55] Speaker B: There's always like a human girl that comes and saves the day, brokering peace. [00:20:59] Speaker A: Wish you would come here and do that for us. Anyway, continue. [00:21:03] Speaker B: So she's the first of her kind to tread the frozen mountains of Evilia in over a thousand years. And she mistakenly binds herself to the main male character. Kingfisher. Terrible name. [00:21:18] Speaker A: We'll get there. [00:21:18] Speaker B: Yeah, he's a handsome Fae warrior, of course. And he's got secrets, secret, secret secrets and nefarious agendas of his own. So he will use her alchemist magic. So that's basically what her power ends up being. To protect his people no matter what it costs him or her. So that, you know, it's basically like them finding out. His past is murky, his attitude stinks. He's not, you know, not telling her, not being like above board with her. And so the only way that she can go home is to like, you know, basically obey him. Which is also like a loaded topic. But you know, as. As it says in the website, be careful of the deals you make. [00:22:02] Speaker A: Dear child, it's important to note here, starting out strong, this is a girl who does not read the fine print. [00:22:11] Speaker B: No, in what way? [00:22:13] Speaker A: She was Making all types of deals in this book. And she was not listening. She was not paying particular attention to the words that were being said. Now, as I'm reading the words on the page, I'm going, sister, you just bought a lemon. You just bought a lemon. You don't even know what you signed up for. [00:22:29] Speaker B: Run away. Run away. [00:22:31] Speaker A: You just bought a timeshare. [00:22:32] Speaker B: Yeah. Essentially a timeshare in Tampa. Correct. [00:22:38] Speaker A: In the middle of a global warming crisis. Yes. [00:22:40] Speaker B: Yes. [00:22:41] Speaker A: And then she has the gall to get upset about it. [00:22:45] Speaker B: She's like, wait, I was going on vacation. What? [00:22:48] Speaker A: It's in Tampa and he's over here. Like, ma'am, we went over the user agreement. What's the deal? But we can back up a little bit and talk a little bit about maybe our main characters or just generally, maybe we could start with talking a little bit about what you thought about the book overall. What were your thoughts? [00:23:05] Speaker B: I love the book. I mean, like, a long book. It was like 620. [00:23:09] Speaker A: I can't even believe that. It didn't feel that way, though. [00:23:12] Speaker B: It didn't. I mean, you know, I was, like, on a little bit of a time crunch, and so I was. [00:23:19] Speaker A: You're booked and busy. You're booked and busy. Yeah. [00:23:22] Speaker B: So I was, like, trying to get there, but I didn't feel rushed. I did enjoy the book. I liked a lot of the side characters. So. So anyway, so the character's main female character, Serris, main male character, Kingfisher. And then the biggest side character, I guess, would be Carrion. So Carrion was also maybe a human, and he came over with Serris. So they're the two humans in the realm. And then we had some of his Kingfisher's friends, so Lorath and. Who was the other? Renfys. And those were kind of the main characters, right? [00:23:59] Speaker A: Yeah, I would say so. In Everlane, I think she played a big role in the beginning. Yeah, I think, you know, I would agree. Like, you. I really like the book, too. I. You know, I started this book back during the holidays. [00:24:11] Speaker B: Oh, right. I remember. [00:24:12] Speaker A: And I got a pre. I've got about halfway through the book. And I didn't stop because I didn't like it. I stopped because I just needed kind of a break around the holiday time. And I was like, I can't. We were doing so many other things with this podcast. I was like, you know, I just. Let me pick this back up when we, like, really focus on it. But I had, like, such a great time. I thought that the writing was the storytelling, the world building. I thought the writing was very vivid for sometimes the good and the bad. I mean, I think, you know, she could write just such a vivid battle scene or such a vivid, like just scenes with like the, the feeder, so to speak. That was just like woefully vivid and I think really great dynamics between the characters. And what I like too, like you said with all of the side characters was that. But the experience as a reader wasn't so focused and so I wasn't so focused and so exhausted by the back and forth between the main male and female characters. There were other people that had other things going on that you were interested in that you wanted to learn about. You know, we always sort of kept our focus on what was going on between Kingfisher and Serris, but at the same time it was like a well rounded out story because of all the other characters and dynamics. [00:25:32] Speaker B: Yes. So it wasn't just the two of them and whatever they were saying and doing. [00:25:36] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly, exactly. So let's start off with some hard hitting questions about maybe our, our main male character. I'm ready to start. Kingfisher. Do we hate the name? I'll go hate it. [00:25:49] Speaker B: Hate it. [00:25:50] Speaker A: I think she could have worked. Callie could have workshop this a little bit more. [00:25:53] Speaker B: Right, right. I don't like the nickname Fisher. It's even worse than Kick Fisher, I would say. [00:25:58] Speaker A: I think about like a bait and tackle shop. You know what I mean? It's not great. And I think, you know, obviously, and we mentioned this on the last couple of episodes, we're very new in this genre. Like we're exploring all of like, I think we've gotten like the main, you know, kind of male characters that are hot in the moment right now out of the way. But I think we can agree that there is a certain like edge and sexiness that comes to how you name for sure the main male character. It can't hold a candle to a Zaden or a Rhysand or any of the other names that I've kind of seen out there. [00:26:30] Speaker B: So this just. [00:26:31] Speaker A: Yeah, this just falls really oddly flat to me. [00:26:34] Speaker B: And it was like every single time she said it, it was like, oh, I don't like that. [00:26:39] Speaker A: Sexy. [00:26:40] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, it was like giving a picture of your dad with a huge tuna. You know what I mean? [00:26:45] Speaker A: It's giving big mouth Billy Bass. [00:26:47] Speaker B: Yes, yes. We don't like it. [00:26:49] Speaker A: No, don't do that. You know what this reminded me of? I thought when I was just sort of thinking about the name a few Years ago. Well, several, several years ago at this point I moved to Columbus for work, you know about the. And I had a co worker at the time who actually had just moved back to Columbus herself. She was living in Chicago for a while, moved back down to Columbus and she graciously took me kind of under her wing to sort of introduce me to her friend group there in Columbus. And I just remember being very stricken by the fact I had met this one girl and she was gorgeous, she was successful, she was wonderful. And the night that I met her, we didn't know each other from a can of paint. She's crying over a boy and she felt comfortable enough to, you know, open up to me and talk to me a little bit about the situation. But as she's telling me about this, I just could not get over the fact that the man's name was Bob. [00:27:45] Speaker B: Oh no. Mm, mm. Nope. [00:27:47] Speaker A: A 29 year old man going by the name of Bob. [00:27:52] Speaker B: Why not pick Bobby? I'd prefer Bobby. [00:27:55] Speaker A: I would take Bobby over Bob any day. There are so many variations of this name. Rob. [00:28:00] Speaker B: Robert. [00:28:01] Speaker A: I would take Robert. [00:28:02] Speaker B: I mean, I know I'd take Bert at this point. Yeah, that's kind of cool. [00:28:06] Speaker A: Bob. [00:28:07] Speaker B: No. [00:28:07] Speaker A: It should be physically impossible to call to cry over a man named Bob. [00:28:11] Speaker B: Oh God no. [00:28:12] Speaker A: And I thought about it and you know what I think is actually insane is that in this friend group there was another Robert. And it was almost, but he went by Rob. So it's almost like they just gave up being creative and thinking about other ways in which they could reference this man. So they just kind of went with Bob. He's been known as Bob since elementary school. [00:28:32] Speaker B: What about the last name? Why not use his surname? [00:28:35] Speaker A: What frustrates me the most about this, Jillian, is as a girl in this world, you know that through your life at any given time, a group, a group of girls that you know, there's at least four Ashley's. Yeah, a gaggle of Jessicas, Caitlyn's, three Anns, Ands. I've got a couple, I got several aunts in the life. I've got several. I said Ashley's, Britney's, Katie, Katie's, Jenny, Jenny's. There's so many variations and we have to know how to decipher between them and we do it masterfully. And you're telling me that you can't come up with a better name for this boy named other than Bob. [00:29:13] Speaker B: Why not just be. That's better. [00:29:16] Speaker A: Just go on the lamb and change your name at this point. [00:29:20] Speaker B: I know. [00:29:21] Speaker A: But circling back to the beginning of the story, I could not find sympathy in my heart for this girl because I'm like, sister, you've dodged a bullet. Can you imagine putting welcome to the wedding of Bob, Jane and Bob? [00:29:36] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. The only thing that goes with literally is like if he's an uncle, like an Uncle Bob, you know, an Uncle Bob. [00:29:44] Speaker A: I have an uncle. My grandfather was an Uncle Bob. [00:29:46] Speaker B: Yeah. So that's like the only way like that that would work. [00:29:50] Speaker A: Bob does not work in any sort of a sexual context though. [00:29:53] Speaker B: Oh my God. No. [00:29:54] Speaker A: You know saying Bob and Ben. [00:29:55] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I mean, you might as well. You'll go with Bobby. You won't say Bob. [00:29:59] Speaker A: Even Bob. [00:30:00] Speaker B: I know. [00:30:01] Speaker A: Throw the whole thing away. So this is what I'm saying. There's importance in choosing a name that is. [00:30:08] Speaker B: Yeah. You know that I have a Bobby that I went to school with that I have a recurring dream about that I've talked to your friend about. [00:30:15] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay. [00:30:17] Speaker B: I don't know where he is. I. I mean, I could not pick him out of a lineup because of his name. Bobby. [00:30:22] Speaker A: I think this has the makings of a romantasy novel, to be honest. A man that's like. [00:30:27] Speaker B: Like he's a character that stuck with me. [00:30:29] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:30:29] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:30:29] Speaker A: He's haunting you in your dreams. You should like, you should storyboard this out. I should see where this goes. But yeah, I mean, aside from the name. Good character. Good character. There's one that you struggle with. [00:30:44] Speaker B: I definitely struggled with him. I mean, the possessiveness I was not a big fan of. I felt like there was a lot of toxic but blood play. There was a lot of blood. Not here for the blood that wasn't here for that. [00:30:57] Speaker A: If anybody's into that. I'm not trying to put yuck in your yellow. [00:31:00] Speaker B: Right, right. [00:31:01] Speaker A: It's not for me. [00:31:02] Speaker B: But I mean, there was a choking too. So you know, you and I have talked about. I talked about like there's. I have a thing about my neck, you know, and this is where it came from. Okay. So did you ever read There was like a scary stories or something? [00:31:14] Speaker A: I know exactly where this is going. Do you? [00:31:15] Speaker B: But the girl with the. [00:31:17] Speaker A: I know exactly what you're talking about. [00:31:19] Speaker B: So my sister and I. I still talk about. That is. It was like the most frightening thing. So I have a thing about my neck. [00:31:25] Speaker A: Cuz you're afraid that your neck's gonna fall off. [00:31:27] Speaker B: Yeah. Like when I'm holding babies, I get like newborn babies. I'm like, no, no. Their Head's gonna fall off. [00:31:32] Speaker A: I just avoid it at all costs. Anybody tries to pass me a newborn baby, it's a, it's a no. [00:31:37] Speaker B: I don't know. [00:31:37] Speaker A: What. Cuz I don't want you coming to me years down the road with some sort of like legal action cuz I didn't cradle the baby's neck correctly. It's a fear of mine. I'm like, I don't know how to hold this baby's head. [00:31:50] Speaker B: I know, I know. I don't want to touch a whole baby's until they're adults, basically. [00:31:55] Speaker A: Pretty much it should just be the parents. Don't bring that child over here. I see it from afar. It's great. Love that. [00:32:01] Speaker B: It's great. It's cute. [00:32:03] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:32:04] Speaker B: The. Yeah, the choking and the biting. Not a big fan. I don't like the vampires. [00:32:11] Speaker A: You don't like a vampire story. You don't like a vampire trope. And I'm afraid to say that I think in the next book you're gonna get even more of that, you know? [00:32:18] Speaker B: Yeah. I say I don't like a vampire trope, but I think that this new character that's coming out to Ladius, who we can talk about later, I think that he might not be a biter, he might be a non biting vampire, which I'm into. [00:32:34] Speaker A: What's giving you this? [00:32:36] Speaker B: I thought there was some moment where they were talking about like, yeah, there are some vampires that don't have to feed. [00:32:42] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean it's probably giving. I don't feed. So you can be safe with me. [00:32:46] Speaker B: Yes, yes. When it's like, she wasn't even safe with Kingfisher. First of all, his name. But second of all, like, she wasn't even safe with him. [00:32:54] Speaker A: Yeah. I never disliked Kingfisher. I found that he, like even when we first met him, and I think I told you this just in like little side conversations that we had. I thought that he gave like a good amount of like comic relief in some of the things that he was doing. He was just like really pissed off and upset like every time he walked past those. The Busts of the gods. [00:33:17] Speaker B: Right. [00:33:18] Speaker A: The Corcoran. And he was like flicking them off, not even paying any attention. Everybody else is like bowing their head. [00:33:23] Speaker B: Yeah, right. [00:33:23] Speaker A: And like earlier in the book, somebody's like, well, where have you been all this time? He's like, I've been in hell. [00:33:28] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I remember that. Yeah. [00:33:31] Speaker A: But little by little, it's just like in little things that he kind of does and the way and things that he kind of just shows, like, I just knew there was going to be a redemption arc near the end and by the end of the book, like, we absolutely like see that with him and his care for her, but he was not, you know, we've come across some unlikable characters that never get it together, but he just steadily continues to kind of, you know, get together and, and, you know, eventually be totally likable. In my mind, I had, I had a, I had a book hangover when the book ended for him. Yes, for sure, for sure. [00:34:08] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, yeah, we'll get to that. We'll talk about it in the theories. But yeah, I mean, what else kind of stood out to you about this. [00:34:15] Speaker A: Book I really liked. So first of all, I just also want to note that there are Reddit threads dedicated to the hatred of Kingfisher's name. [00:34:23] Speaker B: Oh, yes, I think I've seen them. [00:34:25] Speaker A: And people are just like not having it. Yeah. And in the same thread of that conversation with our main female character, I really like Sarah Swain. [00:34:32] Speaker B: I do too. Yeah. I thought she was like stronger than a lot of, of female main characters. [00:34:38] Speaker A: Yeah. Stubborn is a horse. Sometimes to a fault where I was like, come on, we gotta get this going. Yeah. Like, I can't deal with this. But I did come across actually a Reddit thread where people said that she's a, an in log. And I was like, oh, that's interesting. And they said she irritates a lot of people, a lot of readers. She irritates because she comes across as a character who's like, I'm not like other girls. [00:35:02] Speaker B: Oh. And in a way that like Violet doesn't and Feyre. [00:35:08] Speaker A: That's what I thought was interesting because they, they got on my nerves a little bit way more than this character did. So it's very interesting that like, somebody who I perceive to be like, pretty clear minded and strong and has a clear POV on the things that she feels and wants to do is kind of being labeled as a. I'm not like other girls. [00:35:28] Speaker B: Yeah. I don't know what that is. I don't know. It kind of reminds me of like. Have you ever read about misophonia? [00:35:34] Speaker A: No, what's that? [00:35:35] Speaker B: It's like you can't stand when somebody's eating in front of you. And so that's kind of what I think of when I think of that in log. Is it called. Yeah, yeah. [00:35:42] Speaker A: That's just the acronym that I saw. [00:35:45] Speaker B: I'm not, I'm not into It. I mean, I think she is. I think she's, like, by far one of the better characters. [00:35:51] Speaker A: Yeah. She doesn't irritate me. Like, I'm not irritated by the third chapter with her behavior. Right. [00:35:56] Speaker B: And she doesn't completely change when she starts realizing that she has feelings for him. I mean, there's a little bit of that. There's a little bit of, like, well, he doesn't like me. Oh, yeah, he. But he just looked at me, you know, there's a little bit of that, but for the most part, she's like, you know, she does. [00:36:12] Speaker A: She does do a little bit of like, oh, I hate him. He's only using me as a tool. And then he comes in the room and she's like, he is etched from stone. [00:36:19] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:36:19] Speaker A: The gods have smiled upon him. And I'm like, girl, pick a lane. [00:36:23] Speaker B: And she's like, he smiles and I. I see those sharp canines seek help. I can't handle the canine. What do you think about the canines? [00:36:35] Speaker A: You know, if they're not in use, I don't really mind them. [00:36:40] Speaker B: Right. Okay. [00:36:41] Speaker A: I don't really. [00:36:41] Speaker B: Well, I did tell you about. There was a. Somebody who was, like, unfortunately, severely mentally ill who asked me if I was a vampire, because I have. And he asked me if I could suck his blood. And I was like, no, sir. I actually got my canine shaved. [00:37:01] Speaker A: First of all, I'm learning a lot out of this conversation. That is something I've never known about you. [00:37:07] Speaker B: I really have not. [00:37:08] Speaker A: This is an icebreaker topic that you need to use. You need to be like, I have got my canine shaped. [00:37:15] Speaker B: I have. I really did. Like, I think I was in high school and I went to the dentist. [00:37:19] Speaker A: I was like, were they. [00:37:21] Speaker B: You've seen my little brother. They were long. I mean, not like, they weren't crazy. They weren't like, oh, my God, I don't want to look at your smile. But like, I used to when I was in middle school, I never smiled with my teeth. [00:37:35] Speaker A: I need to see pictures of this because this is actually wild. I've never heard of anybody's canines being shaved out. [00:37:41] Speaker B: Oh, my. Oh, yeah. Oh, for sure. They knew it. They knew it right away. They were like, okay, yeah, we'll shave those. [00:37:47] Speaker A: Jesus. [00:37:48] Speaker B: Yeah. And then they showed me a mirror, and they were like, how's that? And I'm like, maybe a little bit more. [00:37:52] Speaker A: A little bit off the bottom. Thanks. [00:37:55] Speaker B: They didn't take any off the bottom, so those are still pretty sharp. [00:37:58] Speaker A: Yeah. Has that ever come into. I Mean, has that ever come into contact in a not great way in any intimate relationship? Have they ever. Have they ever. [00:38:12] Speaker B: Have I ever been toothy? [00:38:14] Speaker A: Have you ever drawn blood? [00:38:17] Speaker B: No. No. [00:38:18] Speaker A: Thank God. That's a relief. Thank God. [00:38:22] Speaker B: I think it was from my grandfather, the French side of my grandfather, so. Yeah. [00:38:25] Speaker A: It's not giving Irish. No, no, it's not giving them. God, Jillian. [00:38:33] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, it was a goal of mine growing up. I was like, they're too sharp. They're too long. I got it. I gotta go in. Yeah. [00:38:42] Speaker A: I gotta get these bad boys taken care of. [00:38:45] Speaker B: I don't know if insurance covered it either. Is that, like. I wonder if it was, like, cosmetic. [00:38:49] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:38:50] Speaker B: My parents. [00:38:51] Speaker A: But it seems like it would be. It seems like it would be for a useful purpose. I. I feel like the insurance company should have covered that. [00:39:00] Speaker B: Well, what do you mean covered? [00:39:02] Speaker A: Taking them down? Yes. [00:39:03] Speaker B: Yes, yes. Yeah, I think so. For mental health? [00:39:06] Speaker A: Yeah. Absolutely. In the long term. Absolutely. I'm over here getting my wisdom teeth removed. You're getting your canines worn down? [00:39:14] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:39:15] Speaker A: Did you get all four removed at the same time? You know, they told d. They told her. They were like, hey, listen, these wisdom teeth could absolutely wreck all of the orthodontic work that you've invested in. My mom was like, but let's book it today. Book it today. Can we come in tomorrow? You're gonna have the anesthesiologist on site, because we can do this now. So I was 14 years old getting my. Really, all of them. They were like little bugs. I mean, they weren't even full grown. But my mom wasn't having it. She was not having it. [00:39:40] Speaker B: I was, like, 25, and I got, like. I only had two, and I had to get one out. And then, like, a few years later, I got the other one. But the first one, I didn't have dental insurance. [00:39:50] Speaker A: Oh. [00:39:50] Speaker B: So they, like, didn't give me Novocaine. I don't understand how I got through it, but they're like, this isn't gonna hurt that much. It hurt. Newsflash. It hurts. Yeah, it was very. It was giving. I actually was at the University of Illinois Chicago Dentist School. So they would like. [00:40:08] Speaker A: Jillian, it's giving. It's giving test rabbit. [00:40:11] Speaker B: Oh, for sure. It was basically like they would do something. They'd be like, I'm sorry, I need to have my supervisor. [00:40:19] Speaker A: Thank God for growth. Thank God for. For more money and health insurance. [00:40:25] Speaker B: Thank God. Really? Thank God. [00:40:27] Speaker A: Oh, my God. [00:40:27] Speaker B: I know I was struggling. [00:40:30] Speaker A: I would say so. I would say so the early 2010s were not kind, but my canines. Pristine. Yeah. Okay. You were talking about supporting characters. I really want to give Karion Swift his flowers for doing the Lord's work and really providing a lot of levity and great comedic timing in this book. And what's interesting is when he's first introduced, you're a little bit like, am I going to hate this character? Like, is he going to be a dick through the whole thing? Never her. [00:41:03] Speaker B: I think I liked him from the beginning, though, because he was, like, genuine with her. [00:41:07] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:41:08] Speaker B: And he was, like, very, like, worried about her, about her stealing that thing. [00:41:12] Speaker A: I think he genuinely cared about. [00:41:14] Speaker B: I think he did. [00:41:15] Speaker A: I think that, like, she kept brushing off, like, his little comments about, like, they, like, finding her attractive or, like, you know, like, being a little bit hurt that, like, she woke up after they slept together and, like, you know, like, right. Parted from the apartment. I think he, like, genuinely, really, really cared for her. [00:41:30] Speaker B: I think he did, too. And then when he. It was a reveal that he's like, actually this prince, I was like, well, that makes sense with, like, the kind of. He just, like, walks around with a swagger, you know? [00:41:40] Speaker A: He does. I would say that in one of my notes, there's such an emphasis on how things smell in this world. And Saris notes that Karion's bed smells like a muskrat and. [00:41:51] Speaker B: Oh, stop. What? [00:41:52] Speaker A: It's in there. Look it up. And it shook me when I read that line because I'm like, listen, I've been in a. Listen, I've been in a lot of. Not great, great, great beds. [00:42:02] Speaker B: Right, right, right, right. Yeah. [00:42:04] Speaker A: I've slept on a mattress on the floor in the name of love. It's never smelled like a musk air mattress. Been there. Been there. Not once has anything smelled like a muskrat. No. [00:42:14] Speaker B: What does that smell like? [00:42:17] Speaker A: We're not meant to know. [00:42:18] Speaker B: Yeah, we're not meant to know. Yeah. [00:42:19] Speaker A: Ew. Yeah. So I just want to note that that's, like, number one in my notes. [00:42:24] Speaker B: I can't believe. I think I just bought that out. I don't, like, smell. [00:42:28] Speaker A: So there's lots in here. [00:42:30] Speaker B: There's a lot in here. [00:42:32] Speaker A: But, yeah. I thought that he was a really wonderful character. [00:42:35] Speaker B: I thought he was, too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I think he, you know, he was sort of, like, constantly hitting on other people, and then. Was it Lorath or Runs Renfus? That was like. Yeah. No, I don't think, like, we're not gonna do that. We're not gonna do that today. And he was like, oh, yeah, well, maybe I'll talk to you later about it. Yeah. [00:42:56] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:42:56] Speaker B: So he's, like, into everybody. [00:42:57] Speaker A: He's a. He's a. I think he's a bi king. [00:42:59] Speaker B: He's a bi king. Absolutely. [00:43:02] Speaker A: I want more for him. I actually would like a. Like a standalone novel of his. [00:43:07] Speaker B: Well, apparently. What's. Callie said that she'll have. She'll do a trilogy for this story and then two standalones of side characters. [00:43:16] Speaker A: Oh, great. [00:43:17] Speaker B: So people are thinking it's Carrion. Carrion. Also. Okay. So I thought of this. I think he'd be Glen Powell with red hair. I think that would work. [00:43:27] Speaker A: I could see it because Glen has the comedic chops to carry somebody like that. [00:43:30] Speaker B: Exactly. And he has, like, the kind of. The swagger. [00:43:33] Speaker A: I could see it. [00:43:34] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:43:34] Speaker A: Because it's not said that Karian's not attractive. It's not said that. Anything about that. [00:43:38] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:43:39] Speaker A: He's not chosen in this book as, like, the main love interest of Sarah, but he is cute. [00:43:44] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. [00:43:45] Speaker A: And he's swinging it every which way. [00:43:47] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. I think Glenn would. Would step up. [00:43:50] Speaker A: Yeah. Let's talk a little bit about the dynamic between Rinfus and Everlane. Two characters I. I really like. [00:43:57] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:43:58] Speaker A: I don't know that I fully trust. [00:44:01] Speaker B: Or Everlane. [00:44:02] Speaker A: I don't know that I really fully trust Everlane. [00:44:05] Speaker B: Yeah. Renfest. I do. He's like a ride or die for Fisher. [00:44:10] Speaker A: For Fisher. [00:44:10] Speaker B: Fisher. [00:44:11] Speaker A: For Fisher Price. Yeah. Yeah. I really like him. He is. From page one. He's kind, he's caring. He's empathetic. [00:44:23] Speaker B: Yes. Yes. We're talking about Remus. Yeah. [00:44:25] Speaker A: We're talking about Remphis and Everlane, too. I mean, she's going through a lot, but there's so much of the book where we don't see her, and we just hope that she's all right. And then she shows up with the. She shows up at the. What is it? Sanisroth. [00:44:39] Speaker B: Yeah. Across the river. Vampire complex or whatever. Yeah, yeah. But I think she's. I. I, like, in the end, I think they were like, oh, yeah, she's doing well, so I think she's okay. [00:44:51] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:44:52] Speaker B: Yeah. Not like a super interesting character, honestly. No. So I didn't. I couldn't really find, like, a fan cast of her. [00:45:01] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:45:01] Speaker B: Although you did find one. What was yours? [00:45:03] Speaker A: What was mine? [00:45:04] Speaker B: I don't know. I was thinking Al Fanny. [00:45:09] Speaker A: Oh, you said. Oh, I said Cameron Depp. [00:45:11] Speaker B: Yes. Okay. [00:45:11] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's one the Youth. Know, I'm not too familiar with her work. I've seen her here and there doing different things. I know that she's in, like, the Descendants movies for Disney. [00:45:20] Speaker B: Oh, okay. I've never seen those. [00:45:22] Speaker A: Okay. I've never seen them either. I just, you know, I'm working from home. I see a lot of, like, morning tv. I know what's going on in the households of America. I see a lot of morning talk shows. I know what's going on. I know who's, like, big in suburbia. [00:45:39] Speaker B: Mm, I have no idea. Yeah, that's why I'm kind of at a loss when I'm looking for fan casts. Like, under 25. I have no idea who the children. I don't know. [00:45:50] Speaker A: Your algorithm. Whoever's looking at your Internet search history is probably, like, what the F is going on? Under 25. Is she all right? Is everything okay? Lorath. We really like Lorath. [00:46:06] Speaker B: We liked Lorath. [00:46:07] Speaker A: Yeah. Great side character. [00:46:09] Speaker B: Yeah. It was like, a really sweet story about how he was dying and Kingfisher gave him a piece of his soul. So that was really. That was really special. [00:46:18] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:46:19] Speaker B: Oh, and the singing. [00:46:21] Speaker A: The singing. He sings to the quicksilver. This is the thing. I feel like the quicksilver itself is another character in the book. [00:46:27] Speaker B: Oh, for sure. [00:46:27] Speaker A: Because it's sentient. [00:46:28] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:46:29] Speaker A: And it makes demands. At one point, Saris is about to fully commit suicide by stepping into it with what she thinks is, like, a flimsy little relic from that she steals from Fisher around his neck. She's going to kill that fox. Speaking of onyx. God bless him. [00:46:45] Speaker B: That's, like, my favorite. [00:46:46] Speaker A: That's my favorite character. Where is he? [00:46:47] Speaker B: Fox. I know. [00:46:48] Speaker A: It's a cliffhanger. Where is he? Yeah, that's what I was wondering at the end of the book. I'm like, I'm not saying enough. Onyx. Nobody's. Nobody's bringing me my boy. [00:46:54] Speaker B: He's such a sweet boy. [00:46:56] Speaker A: Such a sweet thing. And then there's Archer, the palace guide. Yeah. Fire sprite. And then there's Rosarius, who's so sweet. So sweet. [00:47:06] Speaker B: Yeah. The library librarian. Who did you. Oh, you said Jeffrey Wright. [00:47:10] Speaker A: Yeah. I think he's a great casting for, like, that. Yeah. That's who I could see him for. But, yeah, the quicksilver itself was like. I don't know if I like it. I don't know if I trust it. [00:47:20] Speaker B: I definitely don't trust it. You know, it's. It's tricky. You know, it's playing like it's trying to play tricks on her. [00:47:26] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:47:27] Speaker B: And it'll. It'll succeed. [00:47:30] Speaker A: Yeah. She's not think. She ain't thinking. [00:47:32] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:47:34] Speaker A: Okay. Let's talk a little bit about where the book ends or like the cliffhanger that it ends with. [00:47:41] Speaker B: Okay. [00:47:41] Speaker A: Okay. We see that Serris is saved at the end. [00:47:47] Speaker B: Yes. [00:47:47] Speaker A: Not by Kingfisher giving her a piece of his own soul. She denies it at the last minute like a dumbass. I was like, why is she denying him from like helping to save her? [00:47:57] Speaker B: I don't know. [00:47:57] Speaker A: And then King Fisher then makes a split second decision for Tolarius. [00:48:04] Speaker B: Right. [00:48:04] Speaker A: To save her. [00:48:05] Speaker B: Which I didn't think about that now. But it reminds. It rhymes with hilarious. [00:48:10] Speaker A: But we'll see. [00:48:11] Speaker B: Just a random. [00:48:12] Speaker A: I guess we'll see. [00:48:13] Speaker B: Random thoughts. [00:48:14] Speaker A: We'll see Tellarius to save her through vampir. Vampirism. [00:48:20] Speaker B: Vampirism, yeah. So weirdly so. I couldn't remember. I think I read it at some point because somebody thought I was a vampire that like you, you're sired. [00:48:30] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:48:30] Speaker B: Basically like the. The vampire. [00:48:32] Speaker A: That's a term that is used in dog breeding also. [00:48:35] Speaker B: Oh my God. There is. Yeah. [00:48:38] Speaker A: I don't like it. [00:48:39] Speaker B: I like it. [00:48:39] Speaker A: I don't like the optics. [00:48:40] Speaker B: I don't like the optics. But they're not like. So like in Twilight it was like they're not actually family. [00:48:46] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:48:46] Speaker B: You know, I mean, they're just people that have bitten each other. [00:48:49] Speaker A: They're chosen family. [00:48:50] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I'm not. I'm not a big fan. [00:48:54] Speaker A: I'm not a huge fan of it. [00:48:55] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:48:56] Speaker A: To be honest, the blood play. [00:48:57] Speaker B: No, thank you. [00:48:58] Speaker A: Not a fan. No. Yeah. Yeah. And so do we. We can probably get a little bit into that in the theory sect. I guess it remains to be seen what comes of Serris. She's born into something new. And I was thinking about this a little bit. So she obviously has some vampire in her now she's human. And I wasn't fully sure if like there's no Fae blood in her at all, is there? [00:49:27] Speaker B: I thought she was half Fae, half vampire because didn't she get up and then see the canines? But that could be vampire. [00:49:34] Speaker A: That's what I thought. [00:49:35] Speaker B: But it's both. Both vampire and Fae. I thought she was. I don't know, I wonder if she like grew because that would mean she was Fae because they're all taller. I don't know. [00:49:44] Speaker A: Well, what. What's interesting is like when she has that conversation at the end with the God of You know, chaos and change. Zilaran or whatever his name is. Yeah, something like that. Who? I did have somebody for him too. Well, is. [00:50:00] Speaker B: I think it was Zerith. Rhymes with Gareth Zarath. [00:50:03] Speaker A: Yeah. What is this actor's name? I see him as Josh Brolin. [00:50:08] Speaker B: Oh, good. That's a good one, huh? [00:50:10] Speaker A: And he said that. Didn't he tell her he had to make her into something new. [00:50:14] Speaker B: Yes. [00:50:15] Speaker A: Okay. If for whatever reason I'm like. Is what she is made up of what the Triumvirate is made up of, which, remember, the Triumvirate was the human, the Fae, and the vampire. And now if he's, like, putting all of that into one person, it's something the likes nobody has ever seen seen before. [00:50:32] Speaker B: Holy. How does that happen? [00:50:34] Speaker A: I don't know. [00:50:35] Speaker B: I mean, that. [00:50:35] Speaker A: I'm not saying that's facts, but I'm just saying that that's something that's been toying around in my mind. [00:50:40] Speaker B: Yeah. I think she definitely is. Whatever she is. She's something that, of course, like, no one's ever been before. Not like other girls. [00:50:48] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:50:49] Speaker B: So great callback. Yeah. [00:50:52] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:50:53] Speaker B: But I think there's never been a half fay, half vampire. I could be wrong about that. That. But. [00:50:58] Speaker A: So maybe it's just even that. [00:51:00] Speaker B: Yeah, it could just be that. But either way, all the girlies want her to, like, for the. Her infertility to be reversed so that she can have a baby. And I don't like it. [00:51:10] Speaker A: You know, I'm not here ever for a pregnancy trope. [00:51:13] Speaker B: You're not holding that baby. [00:51:15] Speaker A: The. I'm not holding that baby. I'm not celebrating this baby. No. I'm not happy when there's a baby in one of these books. I'm like, this is supposed to be fantasy, for fuck's sake. Don't bring me back to right. I don't want. Want this. Anything to be rooted in reality. [00:51:29] Speaker B: No pronatalism here. [00:51:30] Speaker A: No. God, no. Keep. Don't have those babies. [00:51:34] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:51:35] Speaker A: When he was taking her to the doctor to take care of the issue, I said, good. Yeah, let's do this. [00:51:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:51:39] Speaker A: Now take care of it. Which sounds so harsh, but I'm like, not for me. Not at all. So, yeah, I can't wait to see what happens in the next book. I think the next book is slated to come out in November. [00:51:55] Speaker B: November25. [00:51:57] Speaker A: November 2025. We'll be here. We'll be talking about that. We'll be here. [00:52:00] Speaker B: Yep. Yep. [00:52:02] Speaker A: All right. Are we ready to get into a game? [00:52:03] Speaker B: I think we Are. [00:52:04] Speaker A: Okay. We. Jillian and I have structured a new game here called the Dirty Dozen, where we will be recounting 12 of what we think are incredibly notable lines. [00:52:17] Speaker B: And notable. Let's just leave it at notable. [00:52:19] Speaker A: Yeah, Notable lines from the book that, you know, you could say can send us a chill down your spine for sure. [00:52:27] Speaker B: Oh, yeah? What kind of chill, though? [00:52:30] Speaker A: It. It's up to you. [00:52:31] Speaker B: It's up to you. [00:52:32] Speaker A: It's up to the listener. [00:52:33] Speaker B: So who was. You want to go first? [00:52:35] Speaker A: Okay, so what happens with this? Jillian and I have a number of different cards numbered 1 through 12, and we will be picking from them at random. You want me to go first? [00:52:46] Speaker B: You go first. [00:52:47] Speaker A: Since this is the game. [00:52:48] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:52:48] Speaker A: Since I created it. Okay, let me choose this card. This one's calling to me. Just let. Just. Wherever the fates. Wherever the fates let them go. Okay. This one I picked number 12. Okay. So the Dozen. Okay. [00:53:07] Speaker B: Do it. Do it. [00:53:08] Speaker A: The fates have not smiled on me today. [00:53:10] Speaker B: No, they have not. [00:53:11] Speaker A: And I just want to know. I'm not saying these things. These are the words of. Of an artist. That's not mean. [00:53:18] Speaker B: Yeah. But not a great artist. [00:53:19] Speaker A: Okay. This line comes from chapter 27, Marvel. Marked. Just that alone is crazy. Crazy marked. Yeah. [00:53:29] Speaker B: Possessive. [00:53:30] Speaker A: Christian, turn away corner. Okay, here we go. I'm going to make you hoarse from screaming my fucking name. I'm going to mark you in every way imaginable so that everyone knows you're fucking mine. [00:53:46] Speaker B: No. No. Yes. [00:53:48] Speaker A: Well, no. Said in the right context, maybe set in the right tone, the right environment. Maybe with a couple of tequila sodas. [00:53:55] Speaker B: Maybe with a British accent. [00:53:58] Speaker A: Just the environment. The. The climate would have to be just right. [00:54:02] Speaker B: Yes, yes. And a very specific climate. [00:54:06] Speaker A: Exactly. Okay. [00:54:07] Speaker B: Should I go? [00:54:08] Speaker A: Yep. [00:54:08] Speaker B: Oh, God. Here we go. [00:54:09] Speaker A: Pick from that pile. [00:54:12] Speaker B: Okay. Okay, let's see. [00:54:15] Speaker A: What number did you pull? [00:54:16] Speaker B: 5. It's from chapter 12, which is called Fox, and I think that's referring to Onyx. [00:54:25] Speaker A: Okay. [00:54:28] Speaker B: I've been. I've been told my mouth has healing properties, especially when it administered between a pair of thighs. [00:54:34] Speaker A: That's great. [00:54:35] Speaker B: Don't you dare highlight that. [00:54:36] Speaker A: That's great. No, I'm marking it as like, we're done. Okay. You got through it. Yeah. I think that that's a really good. That's a good entry point. That's a good softball. Not necessarily a Mercury. Everyone will know your fucking name. Not to reread that. I'm gonna take this number out because I think that's what we want to do. Okay. I just pulled number four. [00:54:59] Speaker B: Okay, okay. [00:55:00] Speaker A: Chapter 37. Much sharper. I'm about to introduce you to all seven gods. When you meet them, don't forget to tell them I'm the one you worship. On your knees again. Right, Cons. Context. [00:55:12] Speaker B: Could be context. You know, I would like the reverse, though. Tell them that. Oh, wait, no, no, that works. Oh, no. Tell them that I'm the one. I worship you. Does that make sense? Never mind. [00:55:28] Speaker A: We'll workshop it. [00:55:33] Speaker B: Okay, here we go. Okay. Here. Oh, God. [00:55:40] Speaker A: Which number? [00:55:41] Speaker B: You know, I don't like this. Seven. We're going with seven. [00:55:45] Speaker A: Okay, perfect. [00:55:50] Speaker B: Oh, my God. I thought a lot about this. This. Okay. This smell has been haunting my. [00:55:57] Speaker A: No, I need you to put some oomph in it. I need you to get some gumption. [00:56:00] Speaker B: All right, all right, all right. [00:56:02] Speaker A: Really sell it. [00:56:03] Speaker B: 1, 2, 3, go. This smell has been haunting my dreams. I haven't been able to stop to think straight for. From remembering the scent of your need. It's in the itch. And let's talk about. Can we talk about that one time when she said, oh, yeah, I. I probably should have taken a shower? And he said. Don't you finish that sentence. [00:56:26] Speaker A: Oh, God, he didn't want her to take a shower. I don't know who that works for. I don't know who that works for. [00:56:33] Speaker B: She goes. He goes, I don't want you smelling like dope. [00:56:39] Speaker A: Is this a horror book? Actually, no. [00:56:41] Speaker B: I don't know. I don't know. [00:56:42] Speaker A: It's rough. Yeah, it's rough to my senses. Okay, I'm going to go. Let me dig in here for the next summer. Okay, pick number. [00:56:51] Speaker B: Which one? [00:56:52] Speaker A: This comes from chapter 22, the itch. [00:56:54] Speaker B: Okay. [00:56:57] Speaker A: When you're sore from coming so hard and you can't recall your own name, remember that? Little Osha. [00:57:05] Speaker B: Oh, my God. [00:57:06] Speaker A: And scene. [00:57:07] Speaker B: And scene. Can we talk about little Osha? It weirds me out that he calls her little something. [00:57:12] Speaker A: I know. It doesn't need to be that. Just call it Osha. [00:57:15] Speaker B: It's giving. Lolita. I don't like it. It's giving to back off. [00:57:22] Speaker A: Yeah, it's not great. Again, don't love those optics. [00:57:26] Speaker B: Okay, not eight. Not eight, not eight. [00:57:28] Speaker A: Okay. [00:57:29] Speaker B: Okay. This is. Okay. Two. This wasn't just an orgasm. It was an awakening. That's from chapter two, the 22. [00:57:39] Speaker A: You know what I like that. That I like. [00:57:40] Speaker B: Yeah, That I. I'd be okay with. [00:57:41] Speaker A: I don't hate that. [00:57:42] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:57:42] Speaker A: I'm like, good for you, girl. [00:57:45] Speaker B: Yep. [00:57:46] Speaker A: Good for you. Okay, I'm going To go. Let's see here. O. I think I just pushed one over there to you. Okay. Okay, here we go. [00:57:57] Speaker B: Which one? [00:57:58] Speaker A: This also comes from chapter 22, the itch. I am getting. I am getting them today. Chapter 22, the itch. I'm going to make you pant for me, little Osha. [00:58:07] Speaker B: Oh, God. [00:58:07] Speaker A: And when we're done, I'll close my eyes and replay the sound of you moaning in my head every time I stroke myself to completion. Have you ever had a man tell you he's going to stroke himself to completion? There's a first time for everything, I guess. [00:58:22] Speaker B: Okay, now I'm concerned because this one. Okay, hold on. Let's see. [00:58:29] Speaker A: No cheating. [00:58:30] Speaker B: No, no, I won't. Six. [00:58:32] Speaker A: Okay, so this is a good one. This is notable. [00:58:37] Speaker B: There was something like that. We'll talk about that. Okay, so it's from chapter 12. 12 facts. Okay. I'm thinking about drinking the sweet nectar. You're making me straight from the cup. [00:58:53] Speaker A: What the. Here's a follow up question. [00:58:55] Speaker B: Tastes like. [00:58:56] Speaker A: So a man has never told you he's enjoyed drinking sweet. No. [00:59:03] Speaker B: I would call the police. I would slap him. [00:59:06] Speaker A: No, it's not gonna work. Oh, God. We are really getting down. [00:59:11] Speaker B: Yeah, we are. [00:59:12] Speaker A: Some rough ones. [00:59:12] Speaker B: Good luck. [00:59:13] Speaker A: Are there only two left? [00:59:14] Speaker B: Good luck. Luck. [00:59:16] Speaker A: Okay, wait. Let me. Oh, God. Okay, hold on. This is. [00:59:21] Speaker B: You got to do it. [00:59:22] Speaker A: Just. [00:59:23] Speaker B: Just pull the trigger. [00:59:23] Speaker A: Is it only two? [00:59:24] Speaker B: Yeah. And then there's the third one. Or the last one is left. [00:59:28] Speaker A: Okay. Oh, God. [00:59:30] Speaker B: What do you. [00:59:32] Speaker A: This comes from chapter 27 marked. [00:59:36] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. Oh, God. [00:59:38] Speaker A: I'll make you beg, little Osha. I'll fill every one of those pretty little holes. I, for one, hate it. [00:59:47] Speaker B: Oh, what are we repairing a dam? What's going on? [00:59:50] Speaker A: I hate it. It's like he's caulking a tub. [00:59:53] Speaker B: Yeah. Yes. Yes. [00:59:55] Speaker A: Hate it. [00:59:56] Speaker B: It's not pretty. It's not giving pretty. [00:59:58] Speaker A: No, I. There are things like this that would make me dry up. Like I say. [01:00:03] Speaker B: Ha. [01:00:04] Speaker A: If somebody said that to me. [01:00:05] Speaker B: Run away. [01:00:06] Speaker A: No. [01:00:06] Speaker B: Okay. That's me. [01:00:08] Speaker A: That's you. [01:00:10] Speaker B: Okay, hold on tight then. I hope you're not afraid of the dark. That one. I'm not bad. I. I'm not upset about. That's from chapter 22, the itch. [01:00:20] Speaker A: No, absolutely. Let's see here. I'm just trying to make sure that we get all of these. Okay. Okay. So you read that one. [01:00:33] Speaker B: God. [01:00:33] Speaker A: Here we go. Okay, hold on. Yeah. Okay. That was. For our first time. That was good. Okay, so our last. [01:00:44] Speaker B: Let's do. Should we do rock, paper, scissors? [01:00:46] Speaker A: Okay, let's do it. Hold on. Let me just do this really quick and make sure that we are clear on. [01:00:53] Speaker B: Yeah, I know, but it's. It's the green one. [01:00:55] Speaker A: Yeah, but, you know, we didn't do one. I'll read this. [01:00:58] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, just read that. [01:00:59] Speaker A: That's from chapter 11. Swallow. [01:01:02] Speaker B: Period. [01:01:03] Speaker A: The word is swallow. [01:01:04] Speaker B: Swallow. [01:01:05] Speaker A: I thought it was just so succinct. Yeah, swift and succinct and to the point. And, you know, instructions are easy. Instructions are easy. [01:01:15] Speaker B: Right? [01:01:15] Speaker A: And it was dirty in a good way. Yeah, I'll allow it. Yeah, I'll allow it. It's a. It's a yum for me. Okay, we're gonna. Okay. [01:01:24] Speaker B: Rock, paper, scissors. Only one time. [01:01:26] Speaker A: Okay. Rock, paper, scissors. Shoot. All right, Jillian, you gotta read it. Thank you. Scissors over paper. [01:01:33] Speaker B: Here we go. Here we go. This is from chapter 22, the itch. [01:01:37] Speaker A: Wow. [01:01:37] Speaker B: The Itch was really doing a lot. [01:01:41] Speaker A: There was a lot of action. [01:01:42] Speaker B: Which one was that? When they were at the apartment? [01:01:45] Speaker A: I believe it may have been. Yeah. [01:01:48] Speaker B: Okay. This is what King Fisher says. So again, remember that his name is Fisher and he's ain't this. Are you going to scream for me like a good. Like a good girl when I ride your face? Right. When I have you ride my face. [01:02:04] Speaker A: Read that again. Do it again. Do it again. It has to be cool to completion. [01:02:08] Speaker B: Okay. No pun intended. Okay. All right, ready? [01:02:16] Speaker A: I. I want word for word feeling. [01:02:20] Speaker B: Are you going to scream for me like a good girl When I have you ride my face? [01:02:25] Speaker A: Excellent. No notes. You know, again. Right. Right environment, right climate. Really could. It could be hot. [01:02:38] Speaker B: Oh, okay. [01:02:38] Speaker A: It could be hot. I mean, I don't have. I'm not afflicted with the good girl, King. [01:02:43] Speaker B: Me neither. So it's the good girl that's really messing me up. [01:02:46] Speaker A: Yeah, I don't have that. I don't have that. [01:02:48] Speaker B: Calling me a good girl. [01:02:49] Speaker A: Yeah, I don't. I don't really have that. [01:02:50] Speaker B: But I don't want to be called bad girl either. [01:02:55] Speaker A: That doesn't have the same. Just doesn't have the same vibe. [01:03:00] Speaker B: Right. [01:03:00] Speaker A: You know, it's odd. It's an odd thing. [01:03:04] Speaker B: So that was it. That was. That. [01:03:05] Speaker A: That was a fun game. Yeah, it was. [01:03:07] Speaker B: I can't wait for. [01:03:08] Speaker A: We'll keep retooling that one. [01:03:11] Speaker B: All right, so we should get into theories, right? [01:03:14] Speaker A: Yeah, let's do a little. Let's get into a little conspiracy corner. [01:03:16] Speaker B: Okay. So theories and questions. So I guess we kind of hinted at this, but the biggest theory out there is that Toladius. It is Toladius, not Tolarius. [01:03:28] Speaker A: Oh, my bad. My bad, man. [01:03:30] Speaker B: Okay. To Ladius, the theory is that he will be a new love interest. And I guess the people, the girlies are asked, girlies inclusive are asking will, will it be a love triangle or will it be a poly situation? So I was on Reddit and I read about this new thing. I don't think it's new, but, like, in the world of romanticy books, they kept referring to as RH books. And have you heard about this? [01:03:58] Speaker A: No. [01:03:59] Speaker B: It's reverse harem, so. Huh. So that's like, apparently a big thing. It wasn't blood and ash. Yeah. Yes. And so I know you don't like that Taladius might be a new love interest, but I do just because I think Kingfisher is a little bit too possessive for me. But I'm gonna. It's gonna be weird me out about the sire, like, you know, the weird, like, father daughter dynamic that I don't like. [01:04:28] Speaker A: I don't really love that either. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I told you it was mostly because of the fact that, like, I had such a. I fell so much for the character of King Fisher that it feels. It just feels rough for me to completely abandon that now, go in, like a completely different direction. And I saw a lot of people talking about how this is how they think maybe this is going to be similar to Acotar and Tamlin and Rhysand. But I actually. I think that it's so different in the way that it's been done here. [01:04:58] Speaker B: Right. [01:04:58] Speaker A: Because we did get one book where there was a love. There was a love dynamic that was created with potentially between Tamlin and Feyre in that book. [01:05:08] Speaker B: Right, Right. But it was like. [01:05:09] Speaker A: But it wasn't in the same way that this was. Like, there was. There's a depth and an emotion that exists in this book between the characters that didn't exist with. That didn't exist to me between those characters in A Court of Thorns and Roses. [01:05:24] Speaker B: Okay. I mean, honestly, like, if she pulls it off, it would be very impressive. [01:05:28] Speaker A: It would be very impressive. I mean, I even thought I told you when I. Back when we were reading A Court of Thorns and Rose, I always knew that it wasn't going to be Tamlin because anytime I would. Because I read 4th Wing first, and anytime I would look up Fan Art of Zaden Rhysand would come up. So I knew as soon as Rhysand was Introduced as a character even, you know, at that, you know, the festival. I knew that that was gonna be our guy or I knew a bigger deal was gonna be made about him because then what had already been done in the book because so much fan art had been dedicated to him. Um, but I still felt like, just comparatively, like I told you, I was like, I don't know how she's gonna, like, switch out of Tamlin. Like, so much has been invested. [01:06:10] Speaker B: Right. [01:06:10] Speaker A: But just now. But looking back at it, she did, like, a really good job of, like, having Tamlin be there. But you not being super invested in him. Like, you never really get invested in him. [01:06:21] Speaker B: Yeah, I think she did a good job of turning him, though. Like, he pretty quickly turned very possessive and, like, was not letting her leave the house. [01:06:29] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:06:30] Speaker B: Just very, like, giving beast from Beauty and the Beast. [01:06:32] Speaker A: Ye. [01:06:33] Speaker B: Yeah. And so if she does that, I think she can do that with Kingfisher. I wouldn't mind it. [01:06:40] Speaker A: I'd be devastated. [01:06:41] Speaker B: He just gives me again, a beast from the Beauty and the Beast and then. And Taladius gives me more of like a just kind of like, chill. Like, not, you know, but we don't know him. We don't know him. I guess it's the unknown. It's the unknown into the unknown. [01:06:57] Speaker A: Yeah, I just, like, I'm like, fully bought in now. Like, my heart is loyal to Kingfisher. [01:07:03] Speaker B: Yeah. I'm not as loyal. [01:07:04] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:07:05] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:07:05] Speaker A: I like him. He's one of my book boyfriend hall of famers. [01:07:08] Speaker B: I'm. I think I am loyal to Carrion. That's what I will say. [01:07:11] Speaker A: I love Carrion. Yeah, I love Carrion. [01:07:14] Speaker B: Yeah, He's a good guy. So, okay, so I guess we'd gone over the theory that. And I think Kelly did say this, that she's going to do a trilogy of Saris and Fisher, possibly to Ladius too. And then like two standalone books and it could be like a whole mass universe, like, you know, opens up a bunch of stuff. One of the other big theories is that Elroy, the sort of father figure of Saris, is in not a Velia. What's the other Madra's realm? Yeah, that. [01:07:50] Speaker A: In the third. [01:07:51] Speaker B: In the third realm. Yeah, that he is. He's a human. I mean, in the beginning, he's a human, but it's. The theory is that he's actually Fisher's father. [01:08:00] Speaker A: I like, I've been thinking that. [01:08:01] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [01:08:02] Speaker A: While I was reading the book, I was like, so is something going on? [01:08:05] Speaker B: Something's going on. [01:08:06] Speaker A: Especially when it's revealed that his dad went there. [01:08:09] Speaker B: Well. And that when they described Elroy, it was like, he's like this massive hu. Like this massive man, which is like Fae. They're like very tall and have very long legs apparently. But so the other just question I had when Malcolm. So Malcolm's like the evil vampire, right. Who's actually. Who's finally killed in the end. But apparently Fisher was spent like 150 years or whatever with him. Yeah, or 100 maybe. I don't know. [01:08:41] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:08:42] Speaker B: Anyway, Malcolm kept referring to Fisher as like my love and like my darling. And then there was like a whole thing about like, he wants him to submit, which gave me a very outlander feel. And for those who've read about, like, outlander, there's a character in it that's like, like very abusive, but so I don't know what's going on there. [01:09:04] Speaker A: Yeah, that was a. That was a little bit. It was very abusive. There's a very abusive dynamic that exists between the two of them. And that was very. It was very creepy. Not a good feeling. Not a good vibe between the two of them with that one. [01:09:17] Speaker B: No, no. It was like, who's that guy from Call Me by youy Name? [01:09:22] Speaker A: Armie Hammer. [01:09:23] Speaker B: It's very eyes giving. Armie Hammer. [01:09:26] Speaker A: I think I've switched my casting. [01:09:28] Speaker B: Oh, God. To Malcolm. [01:09:30] Speaker A: No, I'm not. I'm not casting him as Malcolm. I don't want to give him money. I don't want to give him a. No, no, he's banished from Hollywood. [01:09:36] Speaker B: He's the worst. What? Okay, so something else is like, people were like, are there going to be dragons in it? Because they made a big deal about the dragon skull behind the. The throne. [01:09:48] Speaker A: Was there something with the witches with that? [01:09:50] Speaker B: No, but I do want to see more of the witches. [01:09:52] Speaker A: I do want to see more of the witches. I want to see Lorath with that. The witch that had come to help Isha Bell. Yeah. Isha Ball. [01:10:00] Speaker B: Look at my sweatshirt. [01:10:01] Speaker A: I love it. They didn't burn witches. Nope. [01:10:03] Speaker B: They burn women. But I love a good witch. [01:10:06] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:10:07] Speaker B: Yeah. So Sabrina. [01:10:09] Speaker A: Love Sabrina. Love that. [01:10:11] Speaker B: Melissa Joan Hart. Okay, so what else? Oh, so she. Kelly Hart did say that Kingfisher and Carrion are not actually their real names. So now you know, there was like a whole thing about Kingfisher was saying, like, we have these secret names that only our mother knows. [01:10:31] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:10:31] Speaker B: Which is like, maybe Callie heard about how much people hate the name and she was like, all right, well, I gotta give them a different Name. [01:10:38] Speaker A: I don't know what was going on with the brainstorming session for Kingfisher. [01:10:42] Speaker B: Maybe she had that in her mind, like, since high school and was like. [01:10:44] Speaker A: This sounds like a Kingfisher. It sounds like a high school era name. [01:10:48] Speaker B: I was thinking. I was trying to think about this, and. And for some reason, I thought that Kieran Culkin's name was that in Home Alone, but it was actually Fuller, you know, like fuller. Oh, yeah. [01:10:59] Speaker A: Was it? [01:11:00] Speaker B: But it's giving the same thing. You know, it's giving the same thing. [01:11:02] Speaker A: I don't. [01:11:02] Speaker B: Fisher is not it. No. I guess another thing is that. So this next book, the second book, which is called Brimstone, right? [01:11:13] Speaker A: Think so, yeah. [01:11:14] Speaker B: So I think a large part of it will be Carrion and Kingfisher going back to the third realm to look for Hayden. [01:11:21] Speaker A: I don't trust Hayden. [01:11:22] Speaker B: Me neither. [01:11:23] Speaker A: Not at all. Something is off. [01:11:25] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. [01:11:26] Speaker A: And it just feels too buttoned up. I mean, it may. It would make sense knowing who Karion is now, that, like, he got Hayden out of the third. [01:11:35] Speaker B: Right. [01:11:36] Speaker A: And got him into the seventh and set him up with a job and, like, did all this stuff. [01:11:40] Speaker B: Right. [01:11:40] Speaker A: But it still doesn't seem right to me. Something's off. [01:11:43] Speaker B: Yeah. Question. Okay. So at one point, they say, say the seven. There are only seven circles. I thought there were nine circles, but it was like, it, like, it was like intimating that. It was like, you know, kind of like seven circles of hell. I thought they were nine. [01:11:59] Speaker A: I didn't. I made none of that connection. I was reading about this. [01:12:02] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:12:04] Speaker A: That's interesting. Yeah. No, I have no idea. I didn't even think about that at all. In terms of the spokes. [01:12:11] Speaker B: Okay. Well, yeah. Just a question. Yeah. And I guess the other thing is, like, she's the queen of the vampires, so what's going to happen with that and that? She's just like, I guess, going to live in that town. The vampires. [01:12:27] Speaker A: She's just going to get her apartment, just set up shop, maybe just have some yoga classes two times a week. [01:12:33] Speaker B: Yeah. It's just going to be like Feyre. She's going to start doing, like, correspondence. [01:12:38] Speaker A: Correspondence in art classes, art therapy. [01:12:41] Speaker B: You know what's crazy is, like, I was reading something in Reddit and these. This girl. These girls were, like, trying to figure out how old Kingfisher is and, like, how old Everlane was. [01:12:52] Speaker A: It's in the book. Yeah. [01:12:54] Speaker B: They're like, I think there's maybe some mistake that some. That Callie made in terms of, like, the years. But what's so funny is that they were talking about this like it was like no big thing. Like carrion is 1754, not 1752. And then they're like, and saris is 24. [01:13:15] Speaker A: Saris is 24. [01:13:16] Speaker B: Saris Is 24. [01:13:18] Speaker A: We've talked about this multiple times. And it's like, needs no. It bears no repeating that. It's so frustrating, it has to be so frustrating for the other characters in these worlds who might be pining for these characters for literally hundreds and hundreds of years. And then some 20 year old speck of dish dust comes in here. Doesn't know how to read Smells Like Muskrat. Doesn't know how to read Smells Like Muskrat. [01:13:46] Speaker B: Doesn't shower. [01:13:48] Speaker A: Hasn't had a shower since they've been seven years old. [01:13:51] Speaker B: Oh, God. [01:13:52] Speaker A: And is the love of the. The absolute love of the. The. The biggest king in the realm's life? [01:14:00] Speaker B: King Fisher. At one point he was like, she is Moonlight. Oh, I know, I know. [01:14:06] Speaker A: She's 24. [01:14:07] Speaker B: 24. 24. She's been through it. She's had a life, you know, but she's still 24. Still underdeveloped brain. [01:14:15] Speaker A: You know, I read these books, I'm like, you're either 24 or you're like, you know, you're 30 and you're like the weaver in the woods. You're scrying with bones. People are coming to you for your wisdom. [01:14:28] Speaker B: You're 30. Everybody else is a thousand and you're 30. [01:14:31] Speaker A: Yeah. And you're like 30. If you go beyond 35, well then you're just lost to the world. [01:14:35] Speaker B: It's giving the substance. [01:14:39] Speaker A: More books written about women, 56 year olds. No, totally. I want that. [01:14:45] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [01:14:45] Speaker A: I want some fay to be like, girl, it's taking you forever to get here. But let's get on with it. [01:14:50] Speaker B: The thing is, what's so crazy about that is like, who was the character in Aatar? This. The cousin. Her. His cousin. [01:14:59] Speaker A: Acotar. And I heard Acata. [01:15:01] Speaker B: Avatar, Not Avatar. Acatar. Yeah, yeah, one. Rhysand's cousin, whoever that is and more. And she was like whatever, like 787. But she acts like a 30 year old though. So like, why can't they have a main female character? That's like 723. [01:15:21] Speaker A: That's what I'm saying. [01:15:22] Speaker B: Right? [01:15:22] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:15:23] Speaker B: Who's got the wisdom. Not like some girl who's just, you know, scrappy and knows how to pick pockets. [01:15:31] Speaker A: And all she's done is like play on the jungle gym all day. [01:15:35] Speaker B: You know what I thought was weird is that, like, when she was in the third Realm, there were two sons. [01:15:41] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:15:42] Speaker B: Two sons. And it never got dark. [01:15:44] Speaker A: I know. [01:15:45] Speaker B: How sad. Can you imagine? [01:15:47] Speaker A: It sounded like hell to me. [01:15:49] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. [01:15:50] Speaker A: The way she described. Callie is a very gifted writer when it comes to, like, again, vivid, detailed writing of settings and. And just the. Just the situations that people find themselves in. How hot it is, like, the elements. She's really good at explaining, like, how it feels, how it smells, all the things. She's great. [01:16:13] Speaker B: She's a good writer. [01:16:13] Speaker A: Yeah. I really enjoyed this. [01:16:15] Speaker B: I did, too. Yeah. I'm excited for the second book to come out. Yeah. [01:16:20] Speaker A: All right, well, thank you so much for joining us this week. We will be back in two weeks ready to talk about our new next book. We've got one in mind, but we are still sort of playing it through. [01:16:31] Speaker B: Yes. [01:16:33] Speaker A: So we will. We can't wait. Yep. And let's see. Thank you to Christian McCann, as always, for being our wonderful sound guy and listening to us yap about our favorite shadow daddies and dragons. Yeah. [01:16:47] Speaker B: And smut. [01:16:47] Speaker A: Absolutely. [01:16:48] Speaker B: Yeah. And as always, thank you to the illustrious Lincoln Lodge. I just want to put up a plugin for my show next on March 14th at 7pm at the Lincoln Launch. Lip service. [01:17:01] Speaker A: Wonderful show. [01:17:02] Speaker B: Be there, be square. All right. [01:17:05] Speaker A: All right. Well, thank you guys, and we'll see you next time. Bye.