FemininoMANON

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. Welcome to Spellbound, a Romantasy podcast. I'm Deidre. [00:00:11] Speaker B: And I'm Jillian. [00:00:12] Speaker C: And I'm Mikey. [00:00:16] Speaker A: Fan favorite, a man with a plan. [00:00:17] Speaker B: Love it. [00:00:18] Speaker A: Oh, my. [00:00:18] Speaker C: I feel like y' all are the ones with the plan. I'm just here for the ride. I'm just here to be a part of it. [00:00:22] Speaker A: Before we went live, that I wrapped this book up 45 minutes ago. I have no plan. [00:00:26] Speaker C: You did. And I am always so impressed by your ability to slide right in at the finish. Yeah, yeah. It adds a certain level of tension, your ability to finish these books right before that, I think. Yeah. Yeah. [00:00:38] Speaker A: The tension that exists in these books is the tension that I like to bring into this room. [00:00:43] Speaker C: Now, when you have, like, one hour before recording and you have 100 pages left, do you just read, like, every other word? Like, how are you powering through these last bits? [00:00:53] Speaker A: I'm actually paying attention to the words. I'm not necessarily scanning through, but I am pushing it. I'm pushing it. [00:00:59] Speaker C: Okay. [00:00:59] Speaker A: I'm not necessarily just, like, skipping things, but I am, like, power reading now. It doesn't do good things for retention. [00:01:08] Speaker B: Right. [00:01:09] Speaker A: So the parts of this book that I was up reading at 1am last night, gotta tell you, lost to the wind, lost to the sands of time. [00:01:16] Speaker C: You know what? You get the vibes, though. [00:01:17] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:01:18] Speaker C: You're like, the vibes are good, the vibes are bad. Like, I know what I feel. [00:01:20] Speaker A: I feel. Yeah. [00:01:22] Speaker C: Julian, when did you finish this book? [00:01:24] Speaker B: Last night at 1:30, so. Okay. [00:01:26] Speaker C: Okay. Okay. [00:01:29] Speaker B: So. So I. And then I was, like, writing about it today, and I was like, God damn it. What happened to Dorian? I, like, totally one of the storylines. I have no idea how it ended. I had to look it up. [00:01:39] Speaker C: Yeah. This was a weird one. Well, we'll get into the book, but the storylines were very desperate for, like, juxtaposition. I finished this book a year ago. Did you reread? I did. Well, sort of. I reread it to the point that it felt good and normal to do so, but there was a point, and we'll get into it. I have a lot of hots and a lot of nots. [00:01:58] Speaker A: I. I'm following your lead. I'm following your lead. [00:02:01] Speaker C: No, I'm. [00:02:01] Speaker A: I'm. I'm holding your hand. [00:02:02] Speaker C: I'm but a guest. I'm a guest in your house, and. [00:02:05] Speaker A: I'm holding your hand, and I just want to see you take me on the journey. [00:02:08] Speaker C: Okay. Okay. Well, I have a lot of hots and knots, and I got really confronted by those knots, and I needed to put it down, so. But we'll get into that. When the time comes, we'll do it. Yeah. [00:02:18] Speaker A: Well, how has everyone been, aside from reading the book? [00:02:21] Speaker B: Well, good. I actually. I just picked up my car because, as you know, my Mikey doesn't know that. [00:02:27] Speaker C: I don't know that I'm filled in. I know that there was car drama before, but there's always. [00:02:32] Speaker B: There's always car drama. Evergreen. People who don't have a youthful vehicle, they don't understand or do have a youthful vehicle. So my car window got bashed in. [00:02:44] Speaker C: Oh. [00:02:45] Speaker B: We were at a charity event on Sunday, and then somebody. The parking lot cleared out, and somebody felt like they needed to get whatever they wanted in my car. [00:02:56] Speaker A: Well, let me just say that there was a very enticing book in your backseat called the book of nonsense. [00:03:01] Speaker C: Oh, well, anybody would want that. I mean, you just can't hide valuables like that, Leave valuables like that sitting. [00:03:06] Speaker A: Around off the shelf. [00:03:07] Speaker B: Yeah, My. Like, somebody from work was like, I mean, are you gonna tell the police? And I was like, excuse me, dude. I would not tell the police if they took the whole damn car. [00:03:19] Speaker A: Jillian, you were the calmest I've ever seen anyone. [00:03:21] Speaker B: I was like. [00:03:22] Speaker A: Because we went to this charity event, and then we left, and we went to the Old Faithful Taste of heaven for brunch. [00:03:28] Speaker C: We love a taste of heaven. [00:03:29] Speaker A: We love a taste of heaven. [00:03:30] Speaker C: Yes. [00:03:30] Speaker A: Yes. And then we drove back. I drove us back, and we parked in the parking lot. We were just catching up on at that point. I think it was on chapter two of the book. So I had very little, you know, just. Just the tip, as it were. [00:03:41] Speaker B: Right. [00:03:41] Speaker A: And we were just talking about my initial impressions, and Jillian just happens to glance over at her car parked. There she goes. Looks like somebody knocked out the window. And not just the calmest. [00:03:52] Speaker C: Goodness. Couldn't be me. What? [00:03:55] Speaker A: And I, like, put. Turn my car off. I, like, opened the door. I, like, stomped out. I ran around, and Jillian's like, yeah, I'll call mom. [00:04:02] Speaker C: You. No, I would have been like, what do I do? What do I do? What do I do? Like, I would have been so panicked. But I guess at that point, it's like, what do you do? [00:04:09] Speaker B: Right? [00:04:09] Speaker C: Like, it's like, it's already done. [00:04:10] Speaker B: She's 20 years old, too. Like, she's been through a lot. And so I think, yeah, it was like, all right, we can. We can figure it out. Deidre was like, should we get fingerprints? [00:04:21] Speaker C: You're like, There with like. Like, flower trying to, like, dust fingerprints. Yes. [00:04:24] Speaker A: I was, like, touching the remnants of the glass, being like, oh, well, maybe I shouldn't touch that in case ev. [00:04:29] Speaker C: Unless you did it, and now you're trying to hide the fact that you did it. So you're like, those I put there later. Yeah, Jillian saw me. Yeah. [00:04:36] Speaker A: Yeah. Don't. [00:04:37] Speaker B: That's how she. [00:04:38] Speaker A: Don't tell the public. But yeah, I was. And Jillian's like, what do you think that's gonna run me? I'm like, a couple hundred bucks at least. [00:04:46] Speaker C: Are you now driving windowless, or did. [00:04:47] Speaker B: You get the window repaired? So I went and got it repaired. And then, of course, like, I had been for the last couple of weeks, I'd been hearing, like. Like, a rolling sound, so. So, I mean, partly I was like, I have to take it in anyway, guys, I think I'm getting fleeced. [00:05:03] Speaker A: What do you mean? [00:05:04] Speaker C: Oh, you think that they're, like, breaking things so they can repair them? [00:05:06] Speaker B: Not breaking things, but, like, charging me so much and, like, way too much. So after this, I'm gonna chatgpt, like, the things that they did. And I gotta tell you, I don't think. I think I'm overpaying. [00:05:18] Speaker A: That's those things. [00:05:19] Speaker C: Yeah. And that's, like, the worst feeling. Cause whenever I go into anything like that, whether it's like, a car or, like, anything like that, and they're like, you need your, like, rear axle aligned. I'm like, if you say so, buddy. Like, I have no idea what anything is. So. Yeah. [00:05:33] Speaker B: Yeah. Or they're. You're going to die on the highway. I'm like, all right, just do it. It's. [00:05:39] Speaker C: You're like, whatever. [00:05:40] Speaker A: If it's my time to go, just. [00:05:41] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:05:42] Speaker A: About being called home, I'm going to heed the call. [00:05:45] Speaker C: Yes. [00:05:48] Speaker A: That's frustrating. [00:05:49] Speaker C: That is frustrating. [00:05:50] Speaker B: Yeah. But that's my story. And it's fixed now, which is good. [00:05:53] Speaker A: Yeah. That's your ministry. That's your story. [00:05:54] Speaker C: It is. I had. I had a burden this weekend. I have a storage unit in my building. Okay. But it's in the basement of the building. And there was, I think, at some point in the past, flooding of some sort. There was water. There was water present. No. Since. So I. And this is my fault for keeping things in cardboard boxes in a storage unit. But it got wet, and so then everything in there got moldy. [00:06:20] Speaker A: Oh, no, no. [00:06:22] Speaker C: So I had to, like, go through and throw a bunch of stuff out. Luckily, it was old documents that I would never need like leases for apartments. I had like 2019, so it's like I would never need it. And anything I had, it was like, in my email is fine. Yeah, but it's just like an annoying thing of like, sorting through all of that. And then I also had to get rid of, like, old high school, like yearbooks. [00:06:44] Speaker A: Oh, that's kind of sad to me. [00:06:46] Speaker C: Yeah. But like, looking at those pictures, I was like, maybe it's best that this is like burned, you know, thrown away, gotten rid of. [00:06:53] Speaker A: I would like to see those. [00:06:55] Speaker C: No, you would not. [00:06:56] Speaker A: I can guarantee you. [00:06:57] Speaker C: I, I look, I think different now than I did then, which is aging, maybe, but like, that's what they call it. That's what they call it growing up. [00:07:07] Speaker B: Maturing. [00:07:08] Speaker C: Yeah. And everyone says I'm very mature. That's maturity. But no, no, I, I looked very different. And I feel like I was, I don't know. High school was not a fun time for me, so I don't like remembering it. [00:07:22] Speaker B: Okay, I know we've talked about this before. You liked high school, Deidre. I wanted to leave the minute I got to freshman year. [00:07:29] Speaker A: Yeah, it was, it was a couple. Like, my high school experience was interesting. It was going into a new school with all new kids my freshman year, and they had all grown up together. So, like, for the first couple years, that's the lottery. [00:07:42] Speaker C: You walk in and you're like, I'm mysterious. [00:07:44] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:07:44] Speaker C: I'm new, I'm cool. Everybody wants to know me. [00:07:48] Speaker A: You see things. Me now, at this age, 14 year old me was not mysterious. And giving it to these kids like you're envisioning. I was awkward. I had freshly, my braces had been freshly taken off. I had just a good amount of delusional self esteem and confidence that I wasn't like, feeling bad about the situation. But now looking back, I'm like, God, that was. Those were a couple of rough, hard years. And of my peers who also entered school under those same circumstances, who they were new to that day, you know, that school in that district. And we were like having to brave this, like, wall of friends since they came out of the birth canal. We all agree that like, the first two years of high school was like, like once we passed the threshold into junior year, that's when we started this, like, feel sort of the, the acceptance. But we, we made a way out of note. We made a community. And before, you know, the tribal acceptance, so to speak. [00:08:41] Speaker C: Yeah, that like, thing where they like, all knew each other. That's tough. It's tough to Penetrate that? Oh, yeah, yeah. [00:08:47] Speaker A: And they're still kind of. They're still kind of like that, to be honest. Left behind. You know, I gotta kind of parse through what's going on with those folks. [00:08:55] Speaker B: But, yeah. [00:08:56] Speaker A: And my burden this week since we're. [00:08:59] Speaker C: This is an airing of grievances that's sort of starting out with. [00:09:02] Speaker A: I, again, am navigating the very adult act of purchasing a home. Right. And I'm in the throws. I'm in the throes. [00:09:09] Speaker B: In the throws. [00:09:10] Speaker A: Financially, emotionally, mentally, legally, spiritually. Spiritually, yeah. [00:09:16] Speaker C: Locationally. [00:09:17] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. In all ways. And so it has been a test of strength and perseverance, but I'm seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. So hopefully by Halloween. [00:09:32] Speaker C: Are we gonna do an ooky spooky housewarming? [00:09:35] Speaker A: I may be setting it up that way. [00:09:38] Speaker C: Well, you know, I've been exploring sourdoughs recently. I haven't actually started, but I've been thinking about it. [00:09:43] Speaker A: You've got part of the host. [00:09:44] Speaker C: No, my activator won't start. I think I killed it. I put it in the oven, but not with the oven on. But the Internet told me to do that. Put it in the oven without the oven on and it'll grow faster. And then I think I killed it. Okay, listen, I'm doing what I think it's called, like, carrot.com or something. It's like some. It's some weird website that's like, here's a breakdown, step by step, hour by hour, of how you create your own sourdough starter. And let me tell you, it didn't work. And it could be. No, it did not start. And it's been two weeks, but I have sourdough on the brain. And so I'm thinking a pumpkin spice sourdough as a welcome gift to your Halloween party. Welcome party. I think this could be. I think this could be huge. [00:10:26] Speaker A: You could absolutely do that. [00:10:27] Speaker C: What are you doing for Halloween? What are you going. Do you know what you're dressing as for Halloween? [00:10:30] Speaker A: A woman doing her best. Just a woman doing her best. [00:10:36] Speaker C: I love that. And describe the outfit, what you see before you. Okay. Gotcha. Yeah. Yeah, I love that. Yeah, I love that every day. Do you know what you're doing for Halloween? [00:10:45] Speaker B: Yeah, probably a woman in 2025. [00:10:47] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:10:47] Speaker A: Yes. [00:10:48] Speaker C: Gotcha. Gotcha. [00:10:49] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:10:49] Speaker C: Wonderful. [00:10:49] Speaker B: I don't know. That's a good question. Yeah. I don't know. What are you doing? [00:10:54] Speaker C: I don't know. You never know because you kind of want to go with Things that are pop culture. Yes. But, like, if we do Wicked, is that, like, done? Like, is that done from last year? I was thinking, like, sexy Glinda. [00:11:07] Speaker B: I love it. [00:11:07] Speaker A: The only way. [00:11:08] Speaker C: Yeah, well, that and also, like, I don't know what. What other movies are coming out this year? I'm trying to think, like, pop culture references that could be costumed, like, came. [00:11:18] Speaker B: Out or is coming out both. [00:11:20] Speaker C: Anything that's, like. But there was K Pop. [00:11:22] Speaker B: Demon Hunters. Have you, like, been anything? [00:11:24] Speaker C: Everyone's gonna be K pop. [00:11:25] Speaker B: Yeah, that's true. Okay. [00:11:26] Speaker C: That's the thing. And, like, the witch hats that the idols wore in that are cool, but I just. I imagine there's gonna be, like, so many gays with, like, a little black crop top and a witch hat, and they're gonna be like, I'm an idol. And, like, the patterns on their body. [00:11:40] Speaker A: That's just a regular Saturday night in bo. [00:11:42] Speaker B: Yes. [00:11:42] Speaker C: Yeah. That's sidetrack. Any day you go. So, yeah, I think I'm gonna have to. [00:11:48] Speaker B: We'll think on it. [00:11:49] Speaker A: Think on it and we'll do, like, a little. What would be great is you coming over to my new condo in a crop top and a witch hat with your sourdough. [00:11:57] Speaker B: Love it. [00:11:58] Speaker A: On Halloween. [00:11:58] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:11:59] Speaker B: Oh, my God. That's the best Halloween ever. [00:12:03] Speaker A: Can't think of a better one. [00:12:04] Speaker B: Oh, my God. [00:12:04] Speaker C: Do you like candy corn? [00:12:05] Speaker A: I'm not a candy corn girl. [00:12:07] Speaker B: Do you? [00:12:08] Speaker C: I love it. [00:12:08] Speaker B: Oh, my God. I hate it. [00:12:09] Speaker C: I love candy. Everybody hates it, but that just means there's more for me. Oh, my God. This is the joy in life. Also, black licorice. I love black licorice. [00:12:15] Speaker A: I see. I'm not a licorice girl. [00:12:17] Speaker B: Yeah, me neither. The closest I can get to that is Diet Coke. [00:12:21] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:12:22] Speaker C: Is there licorice in Coke? [00:12:23] Speaker B: No. I mean, it's, like, a little bit licorice fruit. Diet Coke has, like, a licorice flavor. I could be totally wrong, because I don't like licorice. [00:12:31] Speaker C: I believe you, but I'm skeptical. I, like, want to know more. [00:12:36] Speaker A: Anytime people put Twizzlers in my Halloween basket, I was like, well, not the red ones. [00:12:41] Speaker C: The red ones are gross. I want the black licorice. I want the. I want, like, the Good and Plenty. Do you have a Good and Plenty? [00:12:46] Speaker A: No, you're not speaking my language. What's going on? [00:12:49] Speaker B: Yeah, what is going on? No. You know what I used to do, though? We used to have, you know, Red Vines, the best. And we would bite off the ends, and then Use it as a straw for our Diet Coke. [00:13:00] Speaker A: You were obsessed. I was obsessed with getting some Diet. [00:13:04] Speaker B: Coke and then have some pretzels and chocolate on the side. The best. [00:13:08] Speaker C: Chocolate and pretzels is incredible. You can't beat it. [00:13:11] Speaker A: No. No other combination other than that. [00:13:14] Speaker B: I. I think we need to do here. [00:13:17] Speaker A: You hear you. I'm ready for a little hear, you hear. [00:13:18] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:13:20] Speaker A: Okay. First of all, in the vein of romance news, we all know that Amazon is putting out a Fourth Wing series. [00:13:29] Speaker C: I saw this article. [00:13:30] Speaker A: Okay. Do you want to talk about it? [00:13:32] Speaker C: No. Go for it. [00:13:32] Speaker A: Wait, no. Well, I'm just delivering the news that there is a new Showrunner of the 4th Wing television show on Amazon. Okay. It' been. It's been a little bit of a revolving door, but I want to hear your take on this because you might be more familiar with this woman's work than I are you or. [00:13:47] Speaker C: I'm not. And she did like Lock and Key, which is a show I've never seen. Okay. But it. I mean, whenever. [00:13:53] Speaker A: Is it about Sherlock. [00:13:55] Speaker B: Sherlock Holmes? [00:13:57] Speaker C: It could be. It's a. There's a distinct possibility that that might be the subject. [00:14:02] Speaker A: We'll go into it. But apparently Lock and Key, as you said, co creator Meredith Avril has been brought on as the new showrunner for Amazon's upcoming TV series adaptation of hit romantic novel 4th Wing. Okay. And so people are. I. From what I've seen, people are pretty excited about this. Is it a mixed bag? [00:14:21] Speaker C: I don't know. I haven't seen any, like, reactions, like, public reactions. So I don't know, like, what people are thinking. I just know, like, sometimes having, like, you know, showrunners change is not like that big of a red flag, especially this early in development because they don't have a cast. Like, they're just trying to figure out the vibe. [00:14:38] Speaker A: The last showrunner was hired into the role at the end, like into 2024. So they weren't in the role that long. So I'm curious what's going on for somebody go, no, thanks. I'm out of this. [00:14:49] Speaker B: Interesting. Yeah. [00:14:51] Speaker C: Yeah. And Rebecca is supposedly an executive producer as well, so I never know if it's like they're just trying to find the right fit or if she has maybe like a. You know, we know she loves to do a. She loves to do an interview. She loves to interview more than any author I've ever seen. Rebecca Yarros likes to do an inter. [00:15:10] Speaker A: She absolutely does. [00:15:12] Speaker C: So I don't know if there's, like, anything behind that, but I have concerns about their ability to adapt it into a series, period. With any showrunner. [00:15:21] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:15:22] Speaker A: So it's being produced by Amazon, MGM Studios and Michael B. Jordan's Outlier Society. It has not yet been ordered to series and does not have a cast attached. So this was very developmental. Let's see. She joins the Fourth Wing as the showrunner following the ex of Moira, Wally Beckett, who was a Breaking Bad WR who signed on in the summer of 2024. So quick exit. This is interesting to your point about producers. Additional executive producers on 4th Wing include Michael B. Jordan Outlier president Elizabeth Proposo as well as author Rebecca Yarros. Jonathan Nolan, Lisa Joy and Athena Wickham of Kilter Films will also executive produce. Liz Pelletier and Cheryl Clark are producing for Premeditated, the sister company Fourth Wing publisher Entangled Publishing. An Outlier Society Executive vice president of T, Stefano Augusto will co executive produce. There's too many cooks in the kitchen. [00:16:17] Speaker C: So executive producer credits are often vanity credits. So it's something that you get signed into the deal, but like, you don't actually have any power or role. It's the actual, like producer producers that are often the ones that are. [00:16:27] Speaker B: Yeah, often the actor, like the actors. The, like the actors in it are also executive producers, right? [00:16:34] Speaker C: Yes, that is often the case. [00:16:35] Speaker B: A way to make more money. [00:16:36] Speaker C: Yeah, it's. It's just like a thing that's like, I have been around so long, so give me this. So it might have been part of Rebecca Yaris contract that if she's like, if you're going to put like a series out, my name has to be on it as executive producer. That doesn't necessarily mean she's involved in. [00:16:49] Speaker B: Decision making, however, I can't see her. Not me neither. [00:16:53] Speaker C: Yeah, same. She seems too invested in it to hand off the reins. [00:16:59] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:17:00] Speaker C: But this joins like a litany of other, like, I'm thinking specifically of like a court of thorns and roses. Because wasn't that in like some kind of production deal that fell through? [00:17:10] Speaker B: Yeah, for Hulu. And then, I mean, I imagine that Sarah wants it to be very, very, like, loyal to the script or to the book. And I don't know, I can see them next day. [00:17:22] Speaker A: It's gonna be very hard for me personally to watch these things come to life on screen, whether it's a film or a show or an animation or whatever it is, because I have a very specific idea of what things look like in my mind and it will ruin it for me to see something that completely just like Overpowers the image that I had in my mind. You know what I mean? [00:17:40] Speaker C: And I think, weirdly, somehow more for these books than books. Like hu. Hunger Games. [00:17:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:17:45] Speaker C: You know what I mean? Like, it did feel icky when Hunger Games was adapted into, like, a movie, but there's something about like a court of thorns and roses where I'm like, how. Yeah, how are you gonna do this in a way that feels authentic. Like, Right. [00:17:58] Speaker B: You can't do a reset. Like, he doesn't exist in real life. Right. Like you can't even. Yeah. So how are you gonna assign an actor to him? [00:18:04] Speaker C: Yeah. Like, if they assign. If they, like, cast Hugh Jackman as Rhysand, I think we're all gonna be like, yes, you gotta send it back. No, no. [00:18:13] Speaker B: Yeah. So same thing with Zaden. Like, there's no. There's nobody. [00:18:17] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:18:17] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:18:18] Speaker A: So, well, we'll see. God bless. Whatever happened to a old good old fashioned flirt? Do you like to flirt? [00:18:27] Speaker C: I don't because I think I can't tell when it's happening. And I think other people think it's happening when it's coming for me when it's not. [00:18:33] Speaker A: I run into the same issue sometimes. I've had situations where I'm just having just a bare bones conversation with a man about the weather and he thinks that, like, I'm proposing marriage. [00:18:43] Speaker B: Right, Right. [00:18:44] Speaker A: And I'm like, how do we get here? [00:18:46] Speaker B: Or expecting a proposal. Yeah. From him. Yeah. [00:18:48] Speaker C: Right. He's like, well, she asked me about the thunderstorm, so clearly it's love. [00:18:54] Speaker A: The worst is walking down the street and just saying hello to somebody and then they. You're entrapped. [00:18:58] Speaker B: Oh, my God. [00:19:00] Speaker C: Yes. My friend Mikayla is an expert at this. So she. Mikayla, for the folks listening. She's a dear friend of mine. She goes to University of Chicago. She is, I think, a little jumpy. So, like, when men approach her and she's beautiful. So men will approach her on the street and she'll just be like, what? What? [00:19:19] Speaker A: What? [00:19:19] Speaker C: And they'll like. And they'll be like, never mind. And so she. Yeah, yeah. She has many stories of her being approached in like, a target and who. Her being like, who are you? [00:19:29] Speaker A: That's the best response. [00:19:30] Speaker C: Yeah, it is the best response. [00:19:31] Speaker A: Yes, yes. Well, I love that. And we should all take a little bit of Michaela's magic with us. [00:19:36] Speaker C: Absolutely. [00:19:37] Speaker A: But there is an article in the Guardian and it's called I don't like dating apps. I went to a flirting party instead. [00:19:45] Speaker C: Oh, that's just a Part. Isn't that just a party? [00:19:48] Speaker B: That seems like just a party. [00:19:50] Speaker A: So basically this. Yes, I would agree that in most instances it's a usual party or what used to be a party. But right now, basically, this article is talking about how dating apps are going to ruin us all. Now, I don't know. I know you're not on any other dating apps, Jillian. Mikey. Are you on all of them? You're on all of them? [00:20:11] Speaker C: Sort of. I mean, there's so many gay ones, so I'm not on, like, all of the gay ones, but I am on some of the gay ones. [00:20:15] Speaker A: What's the craziest one that you've been on? [00:20:17] Speaker C: Been on personally or, like, explored? [00:20:19] Speaker A: Explored. [00:20:20] Speaker C: That's fine. I think Sniffies is probably the most extreme. Yeah. [00:20:25] Speaker A: When y' all told me about that this summer, I was like, yeah, we. [00:20:28] Speaker C: All talked about Sniffies at Chris's labubu birthday party. [00:20:30] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:20:31] Speaker C: Which is also when we talked about me coming on this podcast, which is. I will circle back to that later because I have reasons for why I wanted to come on for this book in particular. [00:20:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:20:40] Speaker A: Those reasons. [00:20:40] Speaker C: Yes. My brain just, like, went blank. What were we. [00:20:45] Speaker B: So Sniffy. [00:20:46] Speaker C: Sniffies. Right, right. Sniffies. Sniffies. For those who are listening, who don't know, it's a gay dating app that is really focused around hookups. And so you basically have, like, a profile where you set your location and you go, like, anybody near here, let me know. [00:21:02] Speaker A: Okay. [00:21:02] Speaker B: Okay. [00:21:03] Speaker C: It's like a grinder, but one step up more than that. And I've not had a Sniffy's profile, but I. I have, like, seen it, been on it, and it's great. Like, people who like it works for. It works great for. [00:21:16] Speaker A: I saw some things on there, some things maybe not meant for me. [00:21:19] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:21:19] Speaker A: But I liked learning. [00:21:22] Speaker C: It's important to keep your mind open to learning new things. [00:21:25] Speaker A: I like to know what's going on out there in the world outside my window. [00:21:28] Speaker C: Oh, and there's a lot going on right outside your window. [00:21:30] Speaker A: I know. If I was on the app, I would know how close. [00:21:33] Speaker C: Yes, exactly. Yeah. [00:21:36] Speaker A: Well, maybe, you know, if one day those folks tire of sniffies, they can think about going to a flirt. Flirtation party. And essentially, this author, Suzy Esposito. Excuse me. Is writing about how she and her peers. I think she's a late stage millennial. She's early Gen Z. Everybody's tired of the dating apps. We're getting nowhere. We're spinning out of control. And while people do like the idea of going to a party and socializing and meeting other people. And it can often feel like awkward middle school dance. There's not anything that prompts people to kind of just engage in conversation. We've lost the art of just striking up a conversation with someone. [00:22:16] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:22:16] Speaker A: So this article really talks a little bit about a flirtation party that this author had gone to, where folks, as they joined, as they came into the party, would like, adorn a number on their shirt. Like a sticky note, basically, like, to signal to everybody else there that they're single and they're open to meeting people. Or there was a number and an asterisk to, let's say I'm single, but I'm open or in an open relationship or like another number to be like, I'm not available. And people who are like, open and looking for partners could also bring a cupid or like a wing person who's like, you know, willing, like, to help them make conversations and broker relationships with other people. And then there'd be kind of like fun little stations that are optional for people to do around the party. So like, one station had like a table where people can put like a missed connections in the table so they could write on a slip, like, redhead, black shirt. Yeah, here's my number with, you know, whatever. So then, like, if somebody might be a little bit too shy, that can happen. There was like a little bit of truth or dare being played. Like, there were just like little things to prompt people. [00:23:21] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:23:22] Speaker A: And so the, the reactions to this were mixed, but people did at the. [00:23:28] Speaker C: Party or were the reactions online mixed at the party? [00:23:31] Speaker A: Like, people after the party were like, yeah, I met this person. We went and we got a drink afterwards or we got coffee one time, and it was great to meet, meet someone. They liked the analog element of the flirty party. They liked not being at their house on the couch, like doom scrolling through hinge. You know what I mean? [00:23:49] Speaker B: Right, right, right. [00:23:50] Speaker A: But people were very much like, it's going to take like a little bit more practice for people of our generation and the generations beneath us to get back into the habit or into the. The exercise of face to face communication in a way that feels organic and normal. [00:24:07] Speaker B: It makes me so sad because it's like when we were in college, it was going to a party. That was what it was called. It was going to a party. And so it just like makes me sad that, like, we, you know, they. They have to engineer these like, kind of forced things for people to actually, like, meet and talk to each other. It's kind of. I don't know, it's sad. [00:24:25] Speaker A: I mean. Yeah, when we were in college, that was definitely case, but I know that as I've gotten older, I mean, like, where are we going? We're just talking to people. No, I know that doesn't, you know, it doesn't really happen. The farmer's market. It's just like, all the men there have their, like, you know, golden retriever and their wife and a baby in a basket, so. [00:24:40] Speaker B: Well, you know, what I was going to say is, like, a couple years ago, I went to. Oh, it was like a Logan Square, whatever that. Yeah, that's basically what it was like. I. You know, the games and stuff. And do you know what happened? There were. It was like 85% women and 15% men. [00:24:56] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, of course there was. [00:24:58] Speaker C: Of course. [00:24:59] Speaker A: And all, like, the Q eligible ones. Like, there's a line out the door surrounded. [00:25:05] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. So I only stay for a little bit. And then I left. [00:25:08] Speaker C: You're. [00:25:09] Speaker A: I've seen. I've seen enough. [00:25:10] Speaker B: I was like, I have seen enough. Yeah. [00:25:12] Speaker A: Yeah. But I do. I can't tell you how long it's been since I flirted with someone. It's been a while. And I do, like, yes, the energy and the feeling of flirting with someone, but it's so rare. It's rare. [00:25:23] Speaker C: And I think good flirtation requires a little bit of a wit. Like, it requires a little bit of. You have to be able to, like, keep up a little bit, and that can be in rare supply. [00:25:33] Speaker A: There's nothing that tickles me more than a straight man who picks up what I'm putting down and gives it right back to me. There's nothing that thrills me more than that. And it's rare. [00:25:43] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:25:44] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:25:45] Speaker A: Short. [00:25:46] Speaker C: Are we starting our own flirting party? Should we do it? [00:25:49] Speaker B: I mean, I guess, but only women and gay men. [00:25:52] Speaker C: Yeah. I was about to say, you can go for it. [00:25:56] Speaker A: I mean, that's what I've been doing, so. [00:25:59] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:26:00] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Well, there's hope yet. Yeah. [00:26:03] Speaker A: We'll keep reading our books and hoping for a better day. [00:26:07] Speaker B: Better days. [00:26:08] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:26:08] Speaker B: Yep. [00:26:09] Speaker A: Well, that's it for my Hear. [00:26:10] Speaker B: You hear you. [00:26:10] Speaker C: I have one very brief here. You hear? So this is just. I was looking up upcoming Romantasy releases because there's a lot of Romantasy books, some that you've talked about on the podcast and some that I've read, like, on my own, that are getting sequels in the fall or, like, early spring. So I was looking through those. And I saw that Brimstone, the next Quicksilver book is coming out November 18th. [00:26:35] Speaker B: Here we go. [00:26:36] Speaker C: So that is. That's huge. [00:26:38] Speaker B: Three days later, Wicked for Good is coming out. [00:26:42] Speaker A: You've got it. You've got it on the calendar. [00:26:43] Speaker B: I've got it on the calendar. But yeah, that's. Yeah, yeah, I'm excited. [00:26:48] Speaker C: Did you like Wicked one? [00:26:50] Speaker B: Loved it. [00:26:51] Speaker C: I think it's fun to have fun. I think it's fun to have fun. And I liked the movie. [00:26:54] Speaker B: I loved it. [00:26:55] Speaker C: Yeah. I'm worried about part two though, because Part two, I think is significantly less fun. [00:26:59] Speaker B: It's. Yeah, it's less fun. Although I, you know, so Defying Gravity obviously is like the best song. But you know what? I wasn't mad at the trailer. The four Good song. I thought it was good. [00:27:09] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, but Cynthia Erivo is gonna do. She's gonna do what she's gonna do on every song, so it's gonna be great. Yeah. But yeah, that was my only hear you, hear you is that. That one's coming out. Oh, and then I know y' all read the Blood and Ash series. [00:27:25] Speaker A: I would like to not remember that. [00:27:26] Speaker C: Well, the next one's coming out in case you wanna mark your calendar for that. [00:27:29] Speaker A: Did we even read that on this podcast? [00:27:33] Speaker B: This was before. This was like practice podcast. [00:27:36] Speaker A: It was our practice podcast. Maybe one day we'll release those to some sort of non existent patreon. [00:27:41] Speaker B: You know what I mean? I was thinking about like we could go back to that. I don't know. It's not an enjoyable read, but like we could just like read it for fun. [00:27:52] Speaker A: I can't do it for fun. I can't go back. [00:27:54] Speaker C: And I'll tell you, these books I've I in rereading this one for this. If there's something you don't like about a book, especially one of these romantasy books. It's hard to read. It's hard to read. [00:28:04] Speaker A: I can't do it. [00:28:05] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:28:05] Speaker A: I can't go back. [00:28:06] Speaker B: I know. I don't like. Okay, so we'll get into like all the biting and that even happened in this book. [00:28:12] Speaker C: There's a lot of thought. I thought of you in the biting. [00:28:14] Speaker B: Yeah. Did not like it. I know. [00:28:18] Speaker A: Yeah. You're not a biter. [00:28:19] Speaker B: I'm not a biter. I'm not a bloodsucker. I'm not. Yeah. I'm not into that. Well, is that it? [00:28:26] Speaker A: I think so. [00:28:26] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:28:27] Speaker A: I'm ready for just. Are you ready for oh, I'm ready. I'm ready. [00:28:29] Speaker B: Oh, my God. I think it's time. So this week we're reading Air of Fire by Sarah J. Maas, the third book of the Throne of Glass series, published in September 2014. What were you doing? [00:28:41] Speaker A: Where was I in September 20. Where were you, Mikey? Were you in elementary school? Where were you? [00:28:45] Speaker C: Yes, my, you know, adult teeth just came in. No, 2014. September 2014. [00:28:52] Speaker B: High school. Right. Or college. [00:28:54] Speaker C: I graduated high school in 2014, so I would have been freshman in college in September. Or going to be a freshman in college. [00:29:00] Speaker B: Okay. [00:29:00] Speaker A: I was on my second big girl job in my career. [00:29:03] Speaker B: Me, too. I was on my second. Yep, yep. [00:29:05] Speaker A: And pension pennies. Trying to make it work. Living in D.C. and, you know, just trying to make a way out of. No way. [00:29:14] Speaker B: I was working at a house. [00:29:15] Speaker A: Those were deep in the cr. In the struggle years. [00:29:16] Speaker B: That's what those were like. Very much. Yeah. Like buy, you know, like, bowl of soup with quarters. Yes. Yeah. No, I was working at my second big girl job at the hospital and getting in trouble for flirting. [00:29:31] Speaker C: Speaking of, you were throwing your own flirting parties at the hospital? [00:29:33] Speaker B: Oh, my. [00:29:35] Speaker A: The ancient arts. [00:29:36] Speaker B: I mean, I had, like, a nurse manager call me into her office and be like, now, now, Jillian. I mean, I get it. I met my husband at work, but you really can't do that. [00:29:48] Speaker A: So a little bit like our character in this week's book. Book. Sera. Wasn't that her name? [00:29:52] Speaker B: What's her name? [00:29:52] Speaker C: She was Flirt Network. For sure. [00:29:54] Speaker B: She was. She was. [00:29:54] Speaker A: But why? [00:29:55] Speaker C: You were just talking about not having any place to flirt with men. Let's go to the hospital. Let's do a lab. [00:30:00] Speaker B: The hospital? [00:30:01] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:30:01] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, this was. I want the. [00:30:03] Speaker A: I want the. I want the medical director. [00:30:05] Speaker C: There are hot nurses out there. We can find. Although hot, hot nurses are gay. [00:30:09] Speaker B: I know, Exactly. [00:30:10] Speaker C: They're all gay. They're all gay and they're all going to circuit parties. [00:30:13] Speaker B: I know. [00:30:13] Speaker A: Yeah, but I'm not at a circuit party. [00:30:15] Speaker B: Hey, David. Okay, you could be. [00:30:17] Speaker A: I've been invited to a few. [00:30:18] Speaker C: Yeah, I'm not going to that circuit party. But you can go. I gotta sleep. [00:30:23] Speaker A: Is. What is it? What's it. What's the donkey meat? What's. [00:30:29] Speaker B: Wait, what? [00:30:30] Speaker C: Horse meat discount. [00:30:31] Speaker A: Horse meat discount. [00:30:33] Speaker C: So disgusting. I love donkey meat. No, no. Horseshoe is something lucky. Horseshoe is the strip club. [00:30:40] Speaker A: Okay, but horse meat disco. [00:30:41] Speaker C: Horse meat disco is a circuit party. And then there's also Circuit mom, and then there's Queen. [00:30:46] Speaker B: Oh, my God. I gotta do my Research. [00:30:48] Speaker A: You are. You gotta get in class. [00:30:49] Speaker B: I know. [00:30:50] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. Those are material ones I know of. I mean, Richard, Connor and Richard will be like, oh, yeah, we're going to arc or whatever. We're going to whatever. Like, they are always. There's always something. There's always some DJ doing something. [00:31:01] Speaker A: One time they had me down in the basement of Smart Bar. Was I in the middle? Circuit party. [00:31:05] Speaker C: That's queen. [00:31:06] Speaker A: I was. I was at a circuit party. [00:31:07] Speaker C: So I don't think that's a circuit party. I think that's just. I think that's just a queen, which is not a circuit party. But I don't know what it is. I don't know how to categorize it. [00:31:15] Speaker A: There were things going on in there. [00:31:16] Speaker C: Yeah. Oh, I know. [00:31:17] Speaker A: And Connor. I loved it all. And Connor was escorting me to the bathroom. And it looked like a 2002, like, music video. Like, beautiful boys sitting around adorning, like, these beautiful mirrors and kissing each other. [00:31:28] Speaker B: I was like, oh, my God, Deidre's got tears in her eyes. [00:31:30] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. The thing that gets me with the basement of Smart Bar is it there are. Because it's due to. Due to reasons of being basement. There are no windows. And so I get very claustrophobic in that space. And it's like. It's like dark and sweaty, loud music. And I'm just like, I need to see the sun. [00:31:45] Speaker B: That's too much. [00:31:46] Speaker A: At a certain point, I go, you know, this has been beautiful and lovely. I think now the. The party has progressed to a place where this is no longer for me. [00:31:55] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:31:56] Speaker A: And I separated from the group and I turned back and kissed my hand and bid them all adieu. [00:32:03] Speaker C: You shift into your hawk form and you fly away. [00:32:06] Speaker B: But didn't Connor, like, you know, like. [00:32:08] Speaker A: He ran after me to make sure I was okay. [00:32:10] Speaker B: Are you okay? [00:32:10] Speaker A: Yeah. And I was. [00:32:11] Speaker C: That's a good friend. [00:32:12] Speaker B: That's a classic. Classic Youngest brother, gotta say. [00:32:15] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, sorry I interrupted. We were about to get the tip and I completely interrupted it with my talking. Not the first time. [00:32:22] Speaker A: She could slide it right back in there. Easy peasy. [00:32:27] Speaker B: Okay, so. But before I start. So did you know that Sarah J. Maas dedicated the second book to her best friend? And this third one, so great for Susan. [00:32:38] Speaker A: Oh, that's her best friend? Yeah. [00:32:39] Speaker B: It says the second one said Sarah and Susan. Sarah and Susan. For Susan. Best friends until we're nothing but dust. [00:32:46] Speaker A: Very sweet. [00:32:47] Speaker B: She's so great at writing friendships, and that's why. [00:32:50] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [00:32:51] Speaker B: But anyway, okay, so Guys, are you ready? [00:32:53] Speaker A: I'm ready. [00:32:54] Speaker C: I'm excited to see this because a lot happens. [00:32:56] Speaker B: A lot happens. A lot happens. And so. Okay, so in this book, there are three storylines happening at the same time. So first we've got Selina, the Celaena story. Then the story about the folks back at the castle, like Dorian and Kaol. And then lastly, there's a storyline for our new badass witch character, Manon Lover. [00:33:17] Speaker C: Okay, so I have been corrected on my pronunciation because I pronounce it Manon and it's spelled Manon. [00:33:22] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:33:22] Speaker C: But I believe the Internet believes it's Manon. [00:33:26] Speaker B: Manon. [00:33:26] Speaker C: And that hurts me because there's only one N in the middle. There's like, it's M A N, O, N, so it should be Manon. [00:33:33] Speaker A: How does the audiobook pronounce it? [00:33:35] Speaker C: I didn't. I don't. [00:33:36] Speaker A: I was listening to the audiobook, but I feel like it was Manon in the audiobook book for. For the part that I listened to. [00:33:41] Speaker C: You did? [00:33:42] Speaker B: Yeah. Because Manon would be like Brannon, like. [00:33:44] Speaker C: Exactly. [00:33:45] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:33:45] Speaker A: 2S. [00:33:46] Speaker C: It would have to be Manon. [00:33:47] Speaker B: I think it's Manon. I mean, I. I think I've heard, like, of somebody else being named Manon, and I think it was that. [00:33:53] Speaker C: Well, there's a Manon in Cat's Eye, spelled the same way. Cat's Eye is an American K pop group. [00:33:58] Speaker A: Yes. Mikey is. Or Nathan's Obsessed. [00:34:01] Speaker C: Nathan's Obsessed. And Nathan got me obsessed. And they. The music is like, patently terrible. Like, it's all just the worst songs you've ever heard. But they're all beautiful and talented and they do great dancing. [00:34:11] Speaker A: Yeah, they do do great dancing. [00:34:13] Speaker B: Maybe that's what. For Halloween. [00:34:14] Speaker C: Yeah. You got to listen to Gnarly. It's like, actively one of the worst songs ever written. [00:34:17] Speaker B: Oh, I got to do it. [00:34:17] Speaker A: But it's very popular. [00:34:18] Speaker C: It's very popular. [00:34:19] Speaker A: It's a earworm, if you will. [00:34:22] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:34:22] Speaker C: Sorry, I keep interrupting. [00:34:23] Speaker B: No. [00:34:24] Speaker A: God. [00:34:24] Speaker B: Let's slide it back in there. Slide it back in. Okay, so for the Selena storyline, we pick back up with Selena going to Wendland with the assignment to kill the royal family. Okay. So that's where we are. It's there. That. What else? Broody Fae prince named Rowan. [00:34:41] Speaker A: A lot of thoughts. [00:34:42] Speaker B: Ugh. They. I know. They go on this weird, silent journey to see their aunt. [00:34:46] Speaker A: Their aunt. [00:34:47] Speaker C: Their aunt being very important part of this. [00:34:50] Speaker A: That emphasis on their. [00:34:52] Speaker B: Yes, yes. [00:34:53] Speaker A: Shared. [00:34:54] Speaker B: They are distant cousins. And Deidre's not here for. [00:34:57] Speaker A: I'm not Here. [00:34:57] Speaker C: Well, the thing that. Okay, we don't need to get into it too much. But they don't describe how distant in the book. [00:35:02] Speaker B: No, they're just like. [00:35:02] Speaker C: They're cousins. It's our aunt. Don't worry about it. [00:35:05] Speaker A: And I was flipping back and forth being like, am I reading this? [00:35:09] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, I knew we were coming up on a clueless storyline, so here we go. [00:35:13] Speaker A: You said whether it's gonna be Dorian or somebody else she's getting with the cousin. [00:35:16] Speaker C: At least in Clueless, they were not blood. [00:35:19] Speaker B: Not blood related. [00:35:20] Speaker C: They are blood related. [00:35:21] Speaker B: Yes. [00:35:22] Speaker C: Yeah, sorry. [00:35:22] Speaker B: I know. No, it's weird. It's weird. So anyway, they see the fake Queen Maeve and she says that before Selena can get the answer she's seeking about the word Marks and the King, whatever she has to learn about her power. And who's going to teach her? Her cousin Rowan. So they have very. They have several very upsetting weeks during which Rowan punches her in the face, bites her and is generally addict to her and grabs her tongue. [00:35:50] Speaker A: Grabs her tongue. [00:35:51] Speaker B: Grabs her tongue. She is struggling with feeling guilty about Nehemia and also about honestly abandoning her people. [00:35:58] Speaker A: Everything, Everything, everything, everything. She is so self loathing. But so. [00:36:03] Speaker B: But also like, for good reason, you know? [00:36:05] Speaker A: Yeah, but I'm a little bit like, girl, get a grit. [00:36:07] Speaker B: Get it together. I know, I know. So her relationship with Rowan is very weird and goes from like a weird father daughter thing to something like, possibly romantic. Okay, so we'll get more into that with hot or not. Not. Not. [00:36:24] Speaker A: Oh, I'll tell you right now, it's gonna be a knot. [00:36:26] Speaker C: Yeah, it's a big knot. That's like a big time knot. [00:36:29] Speaker B: For me personally. [00:36:31] Speaker C: Yes. [00:36:31] Speaker A: As for me in my spirit, it'. No, it's a. [00:36:34] Speaker B: Not all caps. N O t. Not. Yes. So towards the end of the book, there's a big battle at their current home, which is mist. What is it called? [00:36:45] Speaker C: Mist. [00:36:45] Speaker A: Hold. [00:36:46] Speaker C: Mist. Word. [00:36:47] Speaker A: Misword. Missed word. [00:36:49] Speaker B: Misword. Okay, so. And Celaena, of course, comes into her full power as Aelinn, they heir to Tarasen. But before that happens, we find ourselves in the 1843 Charles Dickens novella A Christmas Carol, and for that matter, the 1988 film Scrooged. Okay, yeah, that was. This was a little bit of a stretch because I was like, trying to think of something and then I was like, okay, Christmas Carol would fit. So anyway, Selina is in the middle of trying to defeat these devastatingly handsome demons. What else? And is visited by the ghosts of her past and passed and is then shown what her future would look like if she gets power hungry. Do you remember the. That? [00:37:31] Speaker C: Yes. [00:37:32] Speaker B: So, okay, so her storyline ends in a very irritating way. Oh, God. May releases Rowan from the blood oath and transfers it to Selena. So the scene that follows is, quite frankly, horrifying. And I'm wishing that I didn't. Didn't visualize it. [00:37:47] Speaker A: You saw it. [00:37:48] Speaker B: Yeah, I saw it. Okay, so meanwhile, we have the brothers in Christ, Kale and Dorian back at the castle. [00:37:54] Speaker C: Right. [00:37:55] Speaker B: They're joined by Adon, who is another one of Selena's cousins, who is. Has feelings for her, so. Another cousin? [00:38:02] Speaker A: Yeah. I'll never get to see her again. [00:38:05] Speaker B: Oh, God. [00:38:07] Speaker C: Yeah. The self loathing runs deep in this book. Everyone has things that they hate themselves for and is one of them. [00:38:12] Speaker B: Yes. Okay, so anyway, Cha and Aden, like, kind of get together and they run around trying to form like la Resistance. Dorian meets a healer named Sorsha who helps him control his power. They simultaneously, like, fall in love. Anyway, in the end, she's beheaded and. [00:38:35] Speaker C: Yeah, she had a tough day at work. [00:38:37] Speaker A: She had a tough way to cut to the chase. [00:38:39] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:38:39] Speaker A: Too long. Didn't read. [00:38:40] Speaker C: There's not much that goes on. It's like, there's awkward flirtation and then she's decapitated. [00:38:44] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:38:45] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:38:45] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. And then it's like, oh, oops. She was part of the resistance. So anyway, I had to look this up because I was like, I totally forgot what happened to ADN. But they. Adon and Kale between 1:30 in the. [00:38:57] Speaker A: Morning and, yeah, 2:30 in the afternoon. [00:39:01] Speaker B: I was like, I don't. I didn't, didn't, you know, register. But Adon and Kael somehow get away. But I forgot about this. The king puts on one of those dark collars. Yep, that's right on Dorian. And so now he's fully under his control. Lastly, we've got my favorite story. So Manon, she. She's a witch in the Black Be coven and is the heir apparent to her grandmother who runs the co Coven. Now, I should say that these witches are not like practical magic witches. [00:39:33] Speaker A: No. Which, by the way, just finished filming. Just finished filming. That was a little bit my. Hear you. Hear you. I miss Nicole Kidman and Keith Urban getting a divorce. They. [00:39:43] Speaker C: That's long for Hollywood. 19 years is a long. Let's celebrate the success. Let's not focus on the failure. Let's celebrate the success. [00:39:50] Speaker A: But off that news, practical magic has. Their streaming numbers have soared and they just wrapped Practical magic too. They just Wrap filming. [00:40:00] Speaker B: So I need to watch Practical Magic. The first one in the next 30 days. [00:40:04] Speaker A: Yeah. Oh, my God. [00:40:06] Speaker C: Is that okay? I didn't like it. I turned it off. I was like, whatever. I. [00:40:11] Speaker B: First of all, just their hair, the two of them, their hair was beautiful. [00:40:15] Speaker C: Yeah, they're both beautiful. [00:40:16] Speaker B: There's no. [00:40:17] Speaker C: There's no denying that they're beautiful. [00:40:18] Speaker A: Mikey's like, I didn't like the film. [00:40:20] Speaker C: I just feel like if you're gonna have something called Practical Magic, there should be more magic. [00:40:24] Speaker B: That's, like. [00:40:24] Speaker C: Not to be, like, a dork about it, but I. I'm like, bring me magic. And then I get it to get, like, a nice. It's about, like, sisters, right? Like, it's about. Yeah. Like, it's like. Like, a nice story about, like, sisters and family. [00:40:33] Speaker B: But I was like, show me Magic and Stacker Channing. And it was. Yeah. [00:40:37] Speaker A: Do you like Hocus Pocus? [00:40:39] Speaker C: I didn't watch it as a child, so I have no nostalgia for it. So. I don't. I'm like, no, but I have nostalgia for. I think anything you watch as a child, you get weirdly nostalgic for. Like, I love the movie Master of Disguise. Have you ever seen that? [00:40:52] Speaker B: No. [00:40:52] Speaker A: With Dana Carvey. [00:40:54] Speaker C: I watched that all the time as a kid, and I could quote it to you. Like, I was obsessed with that. It's the worst movie ever made. [00:41:01] Speaker A: This is where the shelf of our, like, it being in the millennial generation really starts to show is. It's like, I think we were on a shelf, and you were here on the shelf. You know what I'm saying? [00:41:11] Speaker C: For There's a Car Listening Died is raising one hand and then putting another hand slightly lower. [00:41:16] Speaker A: Like, I think, you know, not in terms of quality, but I'm just saying in terms of things that came out of the same time. Like, I think we were, like, not necessarily watching those things at the same time. Now, I do remember the. Those things coming out, but I was, like, you know. [00:41:28] Speaker B: In high school. [00:41:29] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [00:41:30] Speaker A: Like, were you a major fan of High School Musical? [00:41:33] Speaker C: Of course. But I was a little young for High School Musical. But I loved High School Musical. [00:41:38] Speaker A: Please don't say you were too young. [00:41:39] Speaker B: You were young. [00:41:40] Speaker A: We were too high. [00:41:40] Speaker B: Too old. [00:41:43] Speaker C: Well, I just remember it coming out and being like, oh, I like this, but it wasn't. Maybe I was the right age for it. I don't know. [00:41:49] Speaker A: Did you like Camp Rock? [00:41:50] Speaker C: Camp Rock? Yes, of course. Of course. [00:41:53] Speaker A: It came out in 2000. High School Musical came out in, like, two 2006. [00:41:57] Speaker C: Oh, then no, I would have been right at. Right. At the right age. I would have been like what, 10? [00:42:01] Speaker B: Yeah. Because I was. I was past high school, so I. [00:42:03] Speaker A: Was like, yeah, I was about to graduate high school. Yeah. Camp Rock. [00:42:05] Speaker C: Demi Lovato was very important to me growing up. She was very important to me. Demetria. [00:42:10] Speaker B: Yes. [00:42:11] Speaker C: I keep interrupting. [00:42:12] Speaker B: No, God, no. No. I'm almost done. I'm. [00:42:15] Speaker C: Yep, yep. [00:42:16] Speaker A: We're ready. [00:42:16] Speaker B: I'm sliding out, so. Okay. So. Okay, so these witches are like, not normal. They're vicious cannibals that purportedly don't have hearts or souls. [00:42:28] Speaker A: I love them. [00:42:30] Speaker B: Okay, so there are three covens. The Black Beaks, the Blue Bloods. Not to be confused by the CBS drama starring Tom Selleck, who is a great older looking man, by the way. [00:42:40] Speaker A: A favorite of my father. On a Tuesday afternoon at 3:30 on Ion TV. [00:42:44] Speaker C: Not Ion. [00:42:46] Speaker B: You know, Donnie Wahlberg is in it and he's a nut. He's married to what's her face, Jenny McCarthy. They're both anti Vax story. [00:42:52] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. I don't know what that man looks like in my brain. [00:42:57] Speaker A: You don't need to. [00:42:58] Speaker C: Who, Donnie? [00:42:59] Speaker B: Danny Walberg. [00:43:00] Speaker C: Oh, is Mark Wahlberg. They had a hamburger restaurant. Why do I know they did? Like, I could not. [00:43:08] Speaker A: Their. Their eldest brother, the Wahlberger. [00:43:11] Speaker B: Wahlberg. [00:43:11] Speaker A: Yeah. They have a brother who's a chef. [00:43:14] Speaker B: Oh, they do. [00:43:15] Speaker C: And he went into hamburgers. [00:43:16] Speaker A: I don't know if that's a specialty. [00:43:18] Speaker C: I don't think you need a chef degree to do. What do I know? I don't want to disparage. [00:43:21] Speaker A: I don't cook, so I like. [00:43:22] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [00:43:23] Speaker B: But you know what? I. They live in like the Chicago suburbs. Donnie Wahlberg. Yeah. And Donnie. Or Danny. [00:43:28] Speaker A: Yeah, Donnie. Also a member of New Kids on the Block. But that's way, way before your time. [00:43:34] Speaker B: Before you. [00:43:34] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:43:35] Speaker A: Where I'm on the tail end of that. Where? Like, I don't really know. [00:43:38] Speaker B: Yeah, that was like a little bit too old. [00:43:40] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:43:42] Speaker B: So, okay, the Yellow Legs are the other clan coven. So all the covens are brought to this place to pair up. What with wyvern. Wyverns that they can ride because their magic was taken away. Meaning magic. They couldn't ride brooms anymore. We're going to talk about that because, like, this was like, Rebecca Yarrow stole like, directly from this book. [00:44:04] Speaker C: Yes, yes. The wyverns are so cool and the witches are so cool and the viciousness of this, like, wyvern training Whatever it really feels like. And I mean, there's nothing new under the sun, especially in this. Especially in this genre. But, like, it does feel like Rebecca Yar's read this and Harry Potter, and. Yeah, I could do it. [00:44:25] Speaker B: That's it. Yeah, yeah. Because there's even, like, the wing leader. So. [00:44:29] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:44:29] Speaker B: Okay. So Manon Parish. [00:44:31] Speaker A: I wonder if Sarah J. Maas opened fourth wing and was like, oh, oh, play about us. Exactly. [00:44:41] Speaker B: Oh, my God. I mean, I bet she did. I don't know why we haven't heard of any legal. [00:44:48] Speaker A: She's probably like, all of these girls. We're all taken from each other. [00:44:50] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [00:44:52] Speaker B: Anyway, so Manon pairs with my all time favorite character, my baby Abraxos. He was used as bait for the bigger dragons, and she chose him because of, you know, his strength and his gumption. [00:45:04] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:45:05] Speaker B: So they train together. Her grandmother is very disappointed in her for choosing the wyvern. And then it ends with Manon winning wing leader. And then she starts to question the witch's, like, blind allegiance to the elders. And I think that they actually have hearts. [00:45:21] Speaker A: They do. Yeah. [00:45:23] Speaker B: Yeah. Notes spoil it. [00:45:25] Speaker C: I'm not gonna spoil. So I have read this whole series. Yes, we should note that. So I'm gonna note that. I'm gonna really limit. I have a couple things that I want to say about, like, that aren't spoileries, but they put in this book into context. And then I want to talk a little bit about, like, the decision. The reading order decisions that you have made and will continue to make. Okay. [00:45:44] Speaker A: This is the last in the order for me. [00:45:46] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, I mean, no, he means, like, because there are different ways to read it. [00:45:51] Speaker C: Right. Like, some people would have read Assassin's Blade earlier. [00:45:54] Speaker A: Okay, that makes sense. That makes sense. [00:45:56] Speaker C: Are you going to do a dual read of Empire of Storms and Tower of Dawn? Because those take place at the same time chronologically, and they have different storylines, different story lines on different continents. So you. [00:46:08] Speaker A: The girls are fighting. [00:46:09] Speaker C: The girls are fighting. Technically, they're not fighting fighting. They're. They're away from each other. And there are ways. [00:46:16] Speaker B: I hope it's. Rowan and Selena are away from each other. I hate that. [00:46:20] Speaker C: I'm not. I'm not saying nothing. No saying nothing about nothing. But yes. So do we want to go into hots or not? I have, like, a. Like. [00:46:27] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm done. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. [00:46:29] Speaker A: That was satisfying. [00:46:30] Speaker B: Thank you. Yeah. [00:46:30] Speaker A: Yes. Let's. No issue before we do hots. Or not specifically. Maybe we. How do you feel about the book overall? [00:46:45] Speaker C: Okay, this is going to be my spiel. I have a spiel prepared, and I'm going to keep it sober. [00:46:48] Speaker B: Do it. Do it. [00:46:50] Speaker C: The reason I wanted to come on, when we were at Chris's Labubu birthday party and we were deciding which books made sense for me to come in too, I picked this one specifically because I think that this is the moment. This is the book that marks the pivot for Sarah J. Maas as an author. Like, I think the first two books were cute. [00:47:08] Speaker A: They were. [00:47:09] Speaker C: They were nothing compared to Akotar, nothing compared to Crescent City. They were just cute. [00:47:14] Speaker B: Cute. Yeah. [00:47:15] Speaker C: This is the book where she starts to play around with bigger ideas. [00:47:18] Speaker B: Yeah, I can see that. [00:47:19] Speaker C: It really is a transition book because after this, you start getting Crescent City sized books. They have Crescent City style. Feels like there's gonna be a lot more plots, a lot more characters, a lot more, like, movement. [00:47:31] Speaker B: She's magic. [00:47:32] Speaker C: Yes. And so I think this was kind of the first book in her career where she was like, I'm gonna try to, like, really do a lot in a book. And I think that you can kind of feel the growing pains with it because you get great. You get highlights with, like, Manon. [00:47:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:47:46] Speaker C: And then you get weird things like Selena spending the entire time self loathing. [00:47:51] Speaker A: Yes. [00:47:53] Speaker C: Like, it's just. It's not. It's not so high highs and low lows in this one. But I think, because this is like the. The from here on out, there's only excellence with Sarah. [00:48:03] Speaker A: I'm excited. [00:48:04] Speaker B: Okay. Because. Yeah. I mean, that was one thing you and I were talking about. Deidre is like. We were like, I don't know. Rowan is so bad. So in the middle of this book. But then it really picked up. [00:48:15] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:48:16] Speaker B: And it's sort of like, okay, if we're off to the races now. [00:48:19] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:48:20] Speaker C: Once the Valg got in there, which are like the. Like, they're like a. Like a demon thing that, like, they. A part of that collar that you were talking about. Like, if you have a collar on, you get infected by the valve. [00:48:32] Speaker B: Right, right, right, right. [00:48:35] Speaker C: So once they got introduced, once Manan started getting going and she got. Once she. Once she got started picking Abraxos and. And all of that, things really picked up in this one. And that momentum's gonna stay going. [00:48:45] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay. I'm excited about it. [00:48:47] Speaker B: I'm excited. [00:48:48] Speaker A: Yeah. I. I told Jillian. I was like, I don't know if I'm gonna be able to finish this one early on because it was slow going. For me, it was slow at the start because to your point, I don't know how much I just could. And I was like, every time we see Selena, she's beating herself up for some. She did when she was 10 years old. [00:49:02] Speaker B: I know, I know. [00:49:03] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:49:04] Speaker A: I'm. I'm tired of. You were 10 years old. You know what I mean? Like. [00:49:07] Speaker B: Right. Right. [00:49:08] Speaker A: What? [00:49:09] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:49:09] Speaker A: Eight. [00:49:09] Speaker B: Eight years old? Yeah. Like. Yeah. [00:49:11] Speaker A: What decision did you. What? You don't know what's going on? And then I. Yeah. I mean, you know, after a while, it's just kind of like, okay, we have to move past this. Like, we have to. Right. And lo and behold, all she needed was a haircut and she got. She got her energy back. [00:49:25] Speaker B: Oh, my God. [00:49:27] Speaker C: Never underestimate the good. [00:49:28] Speaker B: I know. [00:49:28] Speaker A: She just need a little bob. [00:49:30] Speaker B: She. She needed a valve to cut it with his nail. [00:49:33] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. But, yeah, to your point, I mean, I do remember the moment in which it kind of, like, quickly, like, took off and I was like, okay, well, I'm enjoying reading. Yes. [00:49:41] Speaker B: So, yeah, it was like, too. I mean, there was too much, like, training of Rowan, you know, Rowan training. [00:49:48] Speaker A: Selena and nothing happening. [00:49:49] Speaker B: Nothing. [00:49:49] Speaker A: And that's exhausting to me when we're getting nowhere with the training sessions. [00:49:54] Speaker B: Yeah. Like, it wasn't necessary for the rest of the book. You know what I mean? It was just. I don't know. And Kaol and what did you think about their story? I mean, it was a little boring. [00:50:04] Speaker A: I find them to be boring. [00:50:06] Speaker C: I have to defend Chael. I have to defend. Because there's been so much Kale slander on this. And I don't think that Kale's an, like. I don't think that he is a, like, compelling character to read. [00:50:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:50:16] Speaker C: But the entire Sarah J. Maas fandom hates him. [00:50:20] Speaker B: Yeah, I bet. [00:50:20] Speaker C: And I feel like that's uncalled for. [00:50:22] Speaker B: Really. [00:50:23] Speaker C: I do. [00:50:24] Speaker B: Do you? [00:50:24] Speaker C: Allow me. Allow me to offer. [00:50:26] Speaker B: Go ahead. Go ahead. [00:50:26] Speaker C: I think what we need to do is we need to ourselves a Kale defense. And I think in order to do this, we must put ourselves in Kale's shoes. [00:50:32] Speaker B: Okay, let's do it. [00:50:33] Speaker C: So you are 20 years old. [00:50:35] Speaker A: Okay. [00:50:36] Speaker C: You're a 20 year old man. You're not just a security guard. You are captain, the head security guard. You're there because you're a Nepo baby. Your father's rich and your friend is the prince. So you're unqualified. [00:50:50] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:50:50] Speaker C: And you know, you're unqualified and you're just doing Your best. [00:50:52] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:50:53] Speaker C: A girl comes into your life. Oh, she's a serial killer. Everyone knows she's a serial killer, and they're okay with it. But then your serial killer girlfriend comes up to you and says, hey, I want you to commit treason. [00:51:05] Speaker B: Oh. [00:51:06] Speaker C: And then when you don't, she tries to kill you. [00:51:09] Speaker B: Right. Although I did love that. And I wish she'd killed him. [00:51:12] Speaker C: Yes. Even with this perspective, you're like, yeah, he should die. Putting myself into his shoes, he should be dead. And I just feel like the. The community hates him because he didn't immediately side with Selena. And it's like, well, yeah, he's 20, completely out of his depth. [00:51:27] Speaker B: Right. [00:51:28] Speaker C: And she's a serial killer. Him being. She did. And she didn't have super duper proof that the king was evil at that point. [00:51:36] Speaker B: Right, right. [00:51:36] Speaker C: So, like, this idea that he was going to turn on the king at that point for her is crazy. [00:51:43] Speaker B: I mean, I. But I think, though, it's more about. For me, it's more about that he was boring in one note. I think that was what it was for me. [00:51:50] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:51:51] Speaker B: But again, he's. I guess He's a 20 year old. [00:51:53] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think somebody put it very, like, directly to him in this book where it was like, you are holding on to the past and hoping that it will remain that way while also not making a decision for what you want in the future. And I think that's a little bit of the irritating thing because it's a little bit like, you need to, like, pick. You need to make a decision at this point. [00:52:12] Speaker C: And he does make a decision at the end. He does, like, he decides to be, like, fully Selena. Fully, like, screw the King. I'm gonna, like, you know, I think. [00:52:19] Speaker A: Though, too, there is a little bit of an element there where, I mean, he's slowly getting there, but, like, he's really not on board with the whole magic thing. Like, there is an element of Dorian and Celaena that he cannot get on board with. Like, he fully cannot wrap his arms around who they are as one. The truth of who they are. [00:52:42] Speaker C: Right, right, right. And that feels like an interesting struggle if it was in book one, but we're in book three. Right. And so it's like, okay, we gotta, at some point be okay with the fact that she's like, you know, a fairy and has magic and that your friend has magic and that. Like, you know, and the annoying. I mean, this is like an ongoing theme throughout all these books, but the men being like, I'm gonna protect you. Like, that is such an annoying. [00:53:07] Speaker A: It's so bad. [00:53:08] Speaker C: Such an annoying trope. [00:53:10] Speaker B: I hate it so much. [00:53:10] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:53:11] Speaker A: So it's a knot for Kale. Moving on. [00:53:14] Speaker C: It's not a knot for me. And I think that there's interesting things to come for Kale. That's all I'm gonna say. But just. Just know that I have. I have love for Kale in my heart. [00:53:23] Speaker B: Okay. [00:53:23] Speaker A: I love it. I respect it. Yeah, I respect it. Okay, well, you know, I'm gonna let y' all just kick us off with some Hot or nots. [00:53:29] Speaker B: Yeah. Do you want. Okay. [00:53:32] Speaker C: Do you want to go first? [00:53:33] Speaker B: Sure. What should I start with? Hot or not? [00:53:36] Speaker A: Either. [00:53:36] Speaker C: Let's start with the hot. I feel like we've been doing a lot of knots. [00:53:38] Speaker B: Yeah, well, I usually have way. [00:53:41] Speaker C: Listen. [00:53:45] Speaker B: Manon and Abraxos, number one. [00:53:48] Speaker C: Of course. Of course, of course. [00:53:50] Speaker B: The wyvern, like, he reminds me of a dog. You know, he's just like. He's smelling flowers. And then she wants. She's like, come on, come on. And he, like, you know, sets down his head and, like, closes his eyes. I love it. Love it. So he was great. Loved the Lady Marian story. Any of the backstory. [00:54:09] Speaker A: You know what? [00:54:09] Speaker B: I actually really love the tattooing. Yeah, the tattooing, the old stories. I thought that was really good. And then inner child work on Selina's part when her 8 year old self is holding her hand and telling her to come into her power. Great. And yeah, that's about it. [00:54:29] Speaker A: That's your loves. [00:54:30] Speaker B: That's my loves. [00:54:31] Speaker A: Okay. I love it. Let's really hone in on the Manon and the Lady Marian thing because I really liked again, Sarah Taylor J. Maas. Loves to write a good woman. [00:54:43] Speaker C: Yeah, she does. She loves. This is the thing that I love and I. Before this, I said. The only thing I said about Manon going into this, before you read it was she's like nesta to me. [00:54:53] Speaker A: Yes. [00:54:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:54:53] Speaker C: Which is like. She just knows how to write a difficult woman. But make that make her, like, so cool and so fun and so, like. And because Manon is, like, brutal. [00:55:04] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:55:04] Speaker C: She, like. [00:55:05] Speaker B: Is she. [00:55:06] Speaker C: The opening scene for her is her brutally killing three men. I feel like, the fun of it. [00:55:11] Speaker A: That was so, like, beautiful. Beautifully written. [00:55:13] Speaker C: Yes. [00:55:13] Speaker A: It was vivid. [00:55:14] Speaker C: Yeah. And it, like, really turns on its head because you think she's gonna be attacked and you think she's like a good witch. And then it's like, surprise. She, like, I like drinking blood. [00:55:23] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:55:23] Speaker C: Yeah. And then she's got this like, group of, like, 13. She's a part of a group, a coven of 13 witches called the Thirteen. And they're like. And, like. Like an elite squad of witches. And they're all kind of, like, brutal. And they have these brutal rules, and it's, like, up to, like, Manon to enforce those rules. And this is another reason why Sarah J. Maas is such a great writer. I don't know that Manon ever directly questions the brutality of what she's doing, but you can tell from the writing that she questions that. She's like, well, this is how it has to be. Right. Like, it's never like, I want to do this. It's always like, this is what's expected. [00:56:02] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:56:03] Speaker B: Right. [00:56:04] Speaker A: Totally. And what's so interesting, I told Gillian very early in the book, I was like, it's very rough for me to hear. Hear these brutal attacks against the girls in the coven. [00:56:14] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:56:14] Speaker A: Or in the 13. Like, it is rough. Like, there's no question about it. It's. You know, you step out of line once, and you're getting your. Your arm lobbed off. You know what I mean? So that was a little bit hard to read, but there was an element of me, and I was glad that it never happened. But there was an element to me where, like, I didn't trust. Because of that brutality, I didn't. I didn't trust any of the witches. Like, I. I had an element where I was like, they're going to turn on her. Especially when she chose Abraxos for being a weak dragon. I was like, they're gonna turn on her because they're not gonna trust her as a leader. So I was kind of waiting for that to happen. But I really liked, as the book continued, just, like, how it cemented the relationships and the. And the. Just the love and the trust that they had in each other, even if that wasn't going up to the matron of the Black Beaks. You know what I mean? There's definitely a question. And to your point, you know, when they brought out that Corcoran witch, that scene was really good in terms of, like, forcing Manon to confront what the question she'd long been grappling with, which is, we are not born this way. We have been made to be this way. So it's interesting, the little good witch versus bad witch narrative between the two. [00:57:29] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. And there's, like, a couple great moments where, like, at one point, they're a Black Beak matron. You don't know if she's gonna like turn on Manon. And Manon is like the 13 were clearly ready to fight for her if that happens. [00:57:47] Speaker B: Of Manon. [00:57:48] Speaker C: Yeah. Ready to fight for Manon if the coven turned on her. So like, there's definitely. There's like brutality and there's not loyalty among witches in those covens. But there seems to be, at least in this book, loyalty among the 13. [00:58:01] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:58:02] Speaker B: Right. [00:58:02] Speaker A: I'm interested. I wanna see definitely more of them. [00:58:06] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:58:06] Speaker A: I just love Manon as a character. [00:58:08] Speaker B: I know she's great. [00:58:09] Speaker A: If we're going to compare her and Nessa, I think I enjoy Manon a little bit more. I know I'm early in my phase with Manon, but. [00:58:16] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I can see that. I'm not a huge fan of the drinking blood, but, you know, I'm not as saved for the fourth time. But no, I do think like so far, I think Manon, I'm liking her more than Nesta. Yeah. Although I love Nesta good too. [00:58:33] Speaker A: I wish I could get there. It's just a bridge too far for me. [00:58:36] Speaker C: I think. I think the. I think that Nesta has it for me. I think Nesta's powers are cooler. I think that like Manon is a cool character, but the witches, even though they have like iron teeth and iron like claws, they don't really have that much magic. True. And so like Nesta's like silver flames, like the whole death God thing, I just find that so much more interesting. [00:58:59] Speaker B: Day. [00:58:59] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. [00:59:01] Speaker B: I mean, I love a witch though too. [00:59:03] Speaker A: I love a witch. I don't love a for no reason anyway, so. [00:59:06] Speaker C: Well, you know, Sarah J. Moss said that if Nesta were in this world, she would be one of the 13. [00:59:13] Speaker A: There we go. [00:59:13] Speaker B: I could see that. [00:59:14] Speaker A: Okay. There we go. [00:59:16] Speaker B: Probably Asterin. [00:59:17] Speaker A: Yeah, probably. [00:59:17] Speaker B: Yeah. She's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:59:21] Speaker A: I like Astrid. She was doing the damn thing. Okay. I also. So we love Lady Miriam. [00:59:29] Speaker B: Love her. Yeah. That story was like heartbreaking and also. [00:59:34] Speaker A: Just kind of goes to show like the love women have for children that aren't even them theirs. [00:59:39] Speaker B: I know. [00:59:40] Speaker A: And how self sacrificial they are to protect. [00:59:43] Speaker B: I mean, I was thinking about that in this. I was like, wait, why did. Why did she have to go as like the nanny, you know, when she has her family like at home? I don't know. Do you know what I mean? [00:59:55] Speaker A: Yeah. I don't know. Maybe just sort of being the queen's like firsthand. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But that was such a sad sort of heartbreaking scene when she Sacrificed herself for our girl to get away. For Selena. [01:00:10] Speaker C: Yeah. So basically, in this book where we learned that, like, Selena's backstory is that when the king took over, he blocked me magic so that her, like, fairy parents couldn't, you know, fight back. And then in the night, like, basically, like, assaulted and killed the leadership of her kingdom. And so she managed to, like, get away, but the only reason she was able to get away was because of, like, the sacrifice of, like, this woman, which was, like, very touching and sad, which is, like, one of the great things about. About her as a writer. She can make side characters so real. Like, the surreal. Like, I told you. Have I showed you the picture of my sister? I got my sister to read Acotar, and when this, the surreal died. [01:00:56] Speaker A: She cried. [01:00:57] Speaker C: She cried, she wept when the surreal died. Yeah. [01:01:00] Speaker B: Wow. Okay. [01:01:01] Speaker C: Spoilers for that. Yeah. [01:01:03] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, I think there is something. Like Lady Marian we'd just been introduced to. You know, it was like, what, 10 pages later, and we were. I was like, oh, my God, she died. [01:01:13] Speaker A: I know it was rough. I'll tell you another thing that got me. And I don't know if it was female in nature, but the wyvern who. [01:01:20] Speaker C: Us, you know, died female in nature. That was a female. [01:01:25] Speaker A: Yeah. That broke me as well. [01:01:28] Speaker C: Yes. And then another. Another foreshadow about these witches maybe not being heartless was Petra's reaction to her. [01:01:36] Speaker A: Why Petra is going to light it the hell up. [01:01:39] Speaker B: I love Petra. I mean, I love her. Yeah, yeah. [01:01:42] Speaker A: She's not going to stand for it. [01:01:44] Speaker B: She was, like, bedridden. [01:01:45] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. Weeping with. At the death of her wife. [01:01:48] Speaker A: What was the yellow legs the worst? [01:01:53] Speaker B: Yeah, she's bad. [01:01:54] Speaker A: And what's crazy about the. The witch's agreements is that they can't just haul off and, like, hit the other one in the face, even if they feel, like, wronged. There has to be, like, a declaration of a fight for it to be sanctioned, essentially, which is, like, very fortunate. [01:02:08] Speaker B: Fourth wing, by the way. [01:02:10] Speaker C: It's very fourth wing. Yeah, it's very fourth wing. We're like, we're training to become Dragon Riders, and it's super dangerous. And, like, maybe we die, but there's rules how we can die. [01:02:19] Speaker B: Right. How we can kill each other. [01:02:21] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you have anything else you want to add? [01:02:24] Speaker C: So I have a lot of the same hots that you do. The one thing I will add, so some people will read, and I'm not going to try to spoil. I'm gonna do my best to not spoil anything. Some people will read Assassin's Blade before they read Era Fire. [01:02:36] Speaker B: Okay. [01:02:36] Speaker C: Or some people read it after. Assassin's Blade is a prequel, so it takes place before the events of the first book. And it is basically a collection of, like, shorter stories that, like, are about, like, Selina's life before she gets into the prison. Her job, as you called it. [01:02:55] Speaker B: Her workplace. [01:02:56] Speaker C: Her workplace. She was taken out of her workplace. [01:02:58] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:03:00] Speaker C: And in that book, they go into a little bit more about the Stygian spider. [01:03:05] Speaker B: Loved him. [01:03:06] Speaker A: Love the spiders. [01:03:07] Speaker C: Yes, yes. The Sigean spiders come up in that book. And I would recommend, after you read that, go back and read the chapter where Manon confronts the Sigean Spiders, because the Sigean spiders reference things that happened in that book and then give updates on where certain characters land after that as Little Manx. So it's. I. I. In reading that back, I was like, oh, yeah, that red headed girl definitely is, like, a character you gotta track. And, like, the Merchant is a character you gotta track. [01:03:41] Speaker A: There is, like, a redheaded queen somewhere. [01:03:43] Speaker C: There's a redheaded queen in the waist. In the waist, which is where the witches originally were until they. [01:03:50] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:03:50] Speaker B: Is she. Oh, well, don't tell me. [01:03:52] Speaker C: Yeah, I'm not gonna tell any. Tell you anything, but I would just say. Are you guys reading Assassin's Blade next? [01:03:56] Speaker A: I think so. [01:03:57] Speaker B: I think so. Whatever you tell us. [01:03:58] Speaker C: I think you should read Assassin's Blade next because there are several characters that are introduced in that, and then they start popping up in the next books especially. There's one character that pops up in the next book that is. [01:04:10] Speaker A: One of my faves. [01:04:11] Speaker C: One of my faves. [01:04:12] Speaker B: Do you know what I would love? Did you guys ever see Being John Malkovich? [01:04:15] Speaker A: No, I haven't seen it, but I know. [01:04:18] Speaker B: Okay. It's. Well, John Malkovich is in it, but. [01:04:20] Speaker C: Also it's about being him. [01:04:22] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:04:23] Speaker B: Yeah. Wait, Christian, have you seen Being John Malkovich? [01:04:26] Speaker C: A very long time ago. [01:04:27] Speaker B: Okay. Do you know who else was in it? I can't remember. John Cusack, maybe? [01:04:30] Speaker A: No, Cameron Diaz was in it, wasn't she? [01:04:32] Speaker B: Was she? Okay. [01:04:33] Speaker C: Cameron Diaz is one of our most beautiful women. I think she is. She's not given flowers enough for how. [01:04:38] Speaker B: Phenomenal of an actress she is. She is amazing. Straight from the Mask to the Holiday. [01:04:46] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:04:46] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:04:47] Speaker B: Just amazing. But anyway. [01:04:48] Speaker C: My Best Friend's Wedding. [01:04:49] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:04:50] Speaker C: Oh, excellent. [01:04:51] Speaker A: Yeah, excellent. [01:04:52] Speaker B: I could be the. What is it she, like. I could be the pudding or, you know, when she's like, you could Be a. I don't. It's been creme brulee. Like, oh, there's a creme brulee, and then you have a chocolate pudding or something. She's like, I can be the chocolate pudding. [01:05:08] Speaker C: Okay. Only scene I remember from that movie is her doing the karaoke. Poorly, but still managing because she's Cameron Diaz and so beautiful to, like, win over the audience. Even though she's bad. That scene is, like, stuck in my head. [01:05:19] Speaker B: Yes. Even though she's like. It's, like, so awkward and so painful, and they still. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So sorry. Being John Malkovich, they, like, go. Some. One of the characters goes into his brain, so he's, like, kind of just, I don't know, walking around there and, like, you know, seeing what the operations are like. That's what I want to do with Sarah J. Maas. Is that a little weird? [01:05:41] Speaker A: No. [01:05:41] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:05:42] Speaker A: You want to know how it works. [01:05:43] Speaker C: I want to know. And she said in an interview, she was like, yeah, yeah. I've got, like, four books working right now, and I'm like, I want a tour. I want a tour of what's going on. I gotta know, honestly. [01:05:53] Speaker A: Yeah. I want to know who's the inner sanctum that knows what's going on. Like, sees it as it's being built. I'd like to know who those folks are. [01:05:59] Speaker B: Well, Susan. [01:06:00] Speaker C: Yeah, Susan, clearly. Yes. Susan's like, girl Susan. [01:06:03] Speaker A: Yeah, Susan. Give me those first drafts. [01:06:07] Speaker B: Oh, my God. Wait, I'm sorry. I think I interrupted. [01:06:11] Speaker C: Oh, no. So I would read Assassin's Blade next, just because that's, like, you're going to get good backstory on that and then go Queen of Shadows. And then I really think y' all should do the dual read for Tower of Dawn. [01:06:21] Speaker A: So what do you do, like, chapter to chapter? [01:06:22] Speaker C: I can send you a list. There's a. There's a list online of which chapters to read. Because they are concurrent and because Sarah J. Maas is a genius, you can read certain chunks at different times, and it's almost like the books are talking to each other because they'll be like, oh, I just got news from this continent that this thing happened. Anyway, moving on. And so, like, you get, like, a weird in and out. [01:06:43] Speaker A: And. [01:06:43] Speaker C: Because they are concurrent. [01:06:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:06:46] Speaker C: If you read one and then you read the other after you're done reading the first one, you're gonna be on a cliffhanger. But they have to go back in time to catch up on the other continent, to figure out how everything's gonna coalesce. At the end. [01:06:57] Speaker B: And then you probably forget things. Yeah. So it's kind of like this book, but the stories are separate. [01:07:02] Speaker C: The stories are separate. [01:07:03] Speaker A: Okay. [01:07:04] Speaker C: Yes. So I'd recommend a dual read. The problem is, I think they're both 800 pages long. So it does. That would be tough for one episode. Do. Yeah. [01:07:12] Speaker B: 1600. That is. Yeah, that is. Yeah. I could do that math. [01:07:17] Speaker A: I have a condo. I have to move. [01:07:18] Speaker C: I know. [01:07:21] Speaker A: I gotta figure some shit out. [01:07:23] Speaker C: You do? Yeah. Listen, just get in the next meeting. [01:07:25] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:07:26] Speaker C: And have them go. And then have the book up while you're talking. It'll be a power move. [01:07:30] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Be like, I gotta move into this place so I can talk about this book. [01:07:34] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:07:35] Speaker A: Well. [01:07:36] Speaker B: Oh, my God. Well, we'll see. [01:07:37] Speaker A: We'll workshop it. [01:07:38] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:07:40] Speaker A: I. [01:07:41] Speaker B: Hot. [01:07:42] Speaker A: Or not, depending on how you think about it. I just. I. I don't think Sarah J. Moss thinks much of men. She. [01:07:49] Speaker B: Me there. Not straight men. [01:07:53] Speaker A: No. [01:07:53] Speaker B: Who was the guy in Crescent City that I was obsessed with? [01:07:57] Speaker C: Well, you really were obsessed with hating Hunt. [01:07:59] Speaker B: Hated Hunt. [01:08:00] Speaker C: You Hated Hunt. There was something obsessive about that. But you. Oh, the fish. The fish man. The fish man. [01:08:07] Speaker B: Because if there's ever been a man, a straight man, it's Hunt. You know what I mean? Like, that is the definition. But what's his name? The fish man? [01:08:15] Speaker C: It's like Therian. [01:08:17] Speaker B: No, not Tharion. Not Tharion. He was. Wait, was it not Crescent City? [01:08:22] Speaker A: Did you like the Jaguar from. You're thinking from. [01:08:25] Speaker C: That's dm. What book is that? Heat of. Heat of. Heat of the Everflame. Yes. [01:08:30] Speaker B: Spark of the Ever Flame. Okay. Yes. That's the Jaguar. Okay. All right, so maybe I'm wrong, but he's got gay. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. But I thought it was written by Sarah J. Maas. So I was like, oh, but you know who is, though, in Crescent City? Our IT Guy. [01:08:46] Speaker C: Yeah, but he's gay, too, isn't he? [01:08:48] Speaker B: That's what I'm saying. I like those characters. She can write those characters. She can't write a straight. Well, she can write a straight man. She just doesn't like him. [01:08:54] Speaker C: I think she just does a good job of creating a straight man. That is believable. [01:08:59] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:08:59] Speaker C: He would sit there with a backwards hat and watch football, like, yeah, we. [01:09:02] Speaker B: All live under the spell of the patriarchy. And I know what I'm doing. [01:09:06] Speaker C: The I will say spicy things are happening. There are certain characters. There are certain characters that I was like in the first Couple books and then things happen. [01:09:19] Speaker B: I hope so. [01:09:20] Speaker C: So let's touch base later because there are certain characters that you. [01:09:24] Speaker A: Okay, well, then let's go to my next knot, which is. It better not be cousins bumping uglies, because I'm gonna be. You're gonna have to get irritated. [01:09:30] Speaker C: You'll have to get over that, Jillian. [01:09:31] Speaker A: And it's a no for me. [01:09:32] Speaker B: It's a no for me, too. The cousins. Yeah. [01:09:35] Speaker C: I will say this, and this is not a spoiler. Rowan sticks around. [01:09:41] Speaker B: Of course. [01:09:42] Speaker C: Of course. [01:09:42] Speaker A: You know, he's gonna stick around. [01:09:44] Speaker C: And you're just gonna have to make your peace with him. Sticking around. [01:09:47] Speaker A: Do I have to watch them get intimate? [01:09:50] Speaker C: No. There is no, like, explicit sex in this. There's no court of silver flames here. [01:09:54] Speaker B: Okay. Okay. No smut. [01:09:56] Speaker C: No interesting in this one. She didn't really start the smut until. [01:09:59] Speaker A: No, I'm saying through the whole thing. Do I need to brace myself for a second? [01:10:04] Speaker C: Yeah. Rowan and no, you're not going to get a smut ever. In. [01:10:09] Speaker B: Okay. [01:10:10] Speaker C: I think so. I'm saying that very declaratively, but somebody. [01:10:14] Speaker B: Said yeah in the later books. But that could just be, like, not, you know, actual smut. It could just be, like, romantic. [01:10:20] Speaker C: There's romance. There's romance. There's scenes of. Of romance. But I don't think there's, like. I don't think we're getting what we got with Nesta. [01:10:27] Speaker A: No, I don't think we're getting them nasty. Like, tongue out nasty. [01:10:30] Speaker B: Or Hunt and Hunt and Bryce. [01:10:33] Speaker C: That was tough. The Hunt and Bryce stuff was rough. I don't think we get. But I could be misremembering. [01:10:38] Speaker A: But other people are giving us what we need. [01:10:42] Speaker C: No, I don't think there's much smut in this at all. [01:10:44] Speaker A: Well, you said spice. Who's giving us spice? [01:10:46] Speaker C: I meant some characters get. I meant spicy in terms of, like, they might seem bland now. [01:10:52] Speaker A: Okay. [01:10:52] Speaker C: But that's because certain flavors are cooked. You know what I mean? [01:10:56] Speaker B: They're not with the flavor right now that they want to be with. [01:10:58] Speaker C: Exactly. And once. And certain events haven't happened, certain events haven't transpired that turns certain boring characters into certain very interesting characters. [01:11:06] Speaker A: Well, it's interesting because I asked, you know, chatgpt this weekend because I was so disturbed by the cousin situation between Rowan and whatever that I was like, without spoilers, like, is. Gillian had the question of, like, what relationships make it to the end of the series. [01:11:22] Speaker C: That sucks. [01:11:23] Speaker A: Now know. [01:11:23] Speaker C: You know. [01:11:24] Speaker A: Yeah, we know. One is Coming. [01:11:26] Speaker B: Wait. [01:11:27] Speaker C: And that's the one I'm thinking of. [01:11:28] Speaker B: Is Adan gay? [01:11:31] Speaker C: I would. I don't want to spoil anything. [01:11:33] Speaker B: Okay, okay, okay. [01:11:34] Speaker C: He does not end up with a man. But his sexuality is. He's bi. He's, like, confirmed bisexual. [01:11:40] Speaker B: Yes. Okay. Why doesn't he end up with a man? My God. [01:11:43] Speaker C: Well, I can't give by king. He is giving by king. He doesn't end up with a man. There's another asterisk to it, but it's going to give things away that happen. So I'm just not going to say anything. [01:11:53] Speaker B: Okay, okay. [01:11:54] Speaker C: But he. He ends up with a character. [01:11:59] Speaker B: Okay, okay. Cause I'm. [01:12:00] Speaker A: Ok. A character. [01:12:04] Speaker C: Listen, you're just gonna have to like. [01:12:05] Speaker A: I know Mikey says that and then looks at me and like. [01:12:09] Speaker C: Well, you know who he ends up with. Right? Because you looked it up. [01:12:11] Speaker B: No, he wasn't included in that. He wasn't. Adeon wasn't included. [01:12:15] Speaker C: But you saw what happens with Dorian. [01:12:16] Speaker A: Yeah, but I don't know how. But I'm excited, but I don't know how, so whatever. [01:12:22] Speaker B: Well, okay, so I'm hoping that this is. This happens with Azrael, too. So Adon, you know, he was like, I'm in. You know, I was like, not saying he was in love with Selina, but kind of, you know, and so he, like, thought he was in love with Selena, just like Azrael thought he was in love with. More. [01:12:40] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:12:40] Speaker B: And then I'm hoping that he gets with Eris. That's what I'm hoping that for this next book. [01:12:45] Speaker C: Eris? [01:12:46] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:12:46] Speaker C: Oh, you mean. [01:12:47] Speaker A: You mean Lucian's brother? [01:12:49] Speaker C: Okay, I thought we were talking about Throne of Glass still. [01:12:54] Speaker B: No, no, no. [01:12:55] Speaker C: That'd be hopping worlds if he ended up. [01:12:57] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. No, this is Asriel. I'm hoping Azreal and Eris get together. [01:13:01] Speaker C: See, I don't understand this need for an Eris redemption arc. Like, I think we just. [01:13:06] Speaker A: She loves him. [01:13:07] Speaker C: I know. I know. Which is like. Okay, I get it. He's misunderstood. There are probably certain things that are taken out of context or that you know, but I just don't. I just don't. I don't see it. I don't see it. But on the front of, like, relationships. Yeah, the Rowan and aen. [01:13:27] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:13:28] Speaker C: Because moving on, she's Aen, not Selena. That. That does persist. [01:13:34] Speaker A: Whatever. I mean, fine. I just. I don't particularly like the Deliverance and Dueling Banjo and Incest Brutality. [01:13:41] Speaker B: West Virginia. Yeah. [01:13:43] Speaker C: Yeah. No, I did not love the. And the fact that he hits her. That's the other thing. That's a big time. Not for me is him punching her. Rowan hitting her. [01:13:52] Speaker A: Not you being related to me and hit me. [01:13:55] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:13:56] Speaker C: Yes. [01:13:56] Speaker B: Honestly, like, okay, the cousin sings is the worst, but it does sound like they're very distant cousins. I could get over that. But I think. I think the abuse is like, what I really cannot handle. [01:14:07] Speaker C: And it's like every type. It's verbal, it's physical, it's emotional. Like, he basically tells her she's worthless and then like, hits her. Bites her. Yes. [01:14:16] Speaker A: I can't ever get over the cousins. You mentioned cousins one time to me. I can't do it. I'm sorry. [01:14:21] Speaker B: Here's the thing, though. [01:14:22] Speaker C: So we're all cousins in the eyes. [01:14:24] Speaker B: We are. [01:14:25] Speaker A: No, no, no, no. [01:14:29] Speaker B: We are not cousins in Christ. [01:14:32] Speaker A: No. [01:14:32] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:14:33] Speaker A: No, no, no. [01:14:35] Speaker B: But here's the thing. Okay. So he punches her. He bites her. He bites her several times. He grabs her tongue. He calls her worthless. He says, shut your smart ass mouth and shift. Like, that's just one line. And she then says, God, he was brilliant coming and wicked and brilliant even when he beats the hell out of me every damn day. [01:14:59] Speaker C: Yeah, it's not great. It's not great at all. [01:15:01] Speaker B: Good, Sarah. [01:15:02] Speaker C: Good. And again, this is, I think, the growing pains because. And we've talked about this before. The. The. The calculus for a good book boyfriend in a romantasy is someone that feels simultaneously dangerous and safe. [01:15:14] Speaker B: Yes. [01:15:15] Speaker C: And I think that she couldn't. And again, this was like her first thing. Dorian and Kale were too safe, so she was like, oh, I'm gonna try somebody a little bit more dangerous. And she just went way too far. And so I think that we get with Hunt, I think, is a good balance of like, dangerous and safe. I think the problem is he's just boring. [01:15:33] Speaker B: He's so boring. [01:15:35] Speaker C: But he has a lot of power. He, like, is dangerous, but he's also kind of pathetic. And he, like, clearly loves her. So, like, there's. There's danger and they're safe there, but no one is better than Rhysand. That is, like, where she really is stuck. The landing. [01:15:48] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:15:48] Speaker C: Dangerous and safe. [01:15:49] Speaker A: Such a wonderful dismount, that one. [01:15:51] Speaker C: Yes. [01:15:51] Speaker B: All the women in the world right now, they're saying, that is perfect. Rhysand is perfect. [01:15:57] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:15:58] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:15:58] Speaker A: She did a great job on that. My point about not necessarily liking men is she also didn't do any favors to the cadre of warriors. [01:16:09] Speaker C: Oh, my gosh, the cadre. It's so strange. It's so strange that she introduced those here. [01:16:14] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:16:15] Speaker C: Because they really didn't need to be introduced. There's no plot reason for them to, like, be here. [01:16:20] Speaker B: But then. [01:16:20] Speaker C: And it's like. And now. Yeah, there's one of each. It's like. There's a leopard. [01:16:25] Speaker B: Yes. [01:16:25] Speaker C: There's like, what were the other. There was, like, wolves. [01:16:27] Speaker B: There are twin wolves. [01:16:28] Speaker C: Yeah, they're twin wolves. It was like. It's like, okay, well, you know, now they're here. [01:16:31] Speaker A: In the way that they. In the way that Manon's 13 stood up for her and the way she, like, wrote about them. She did the opposite. Opposite. [01:16:42] Speaker B: Absolute opposite. Yeah. You know, and honestly, like, that was one of my other knots for Rowan is, like, his friendship with them. Like, he's not actually friends with them. [01:16:53] Speaker C: You know, and that is, I think, partially. Partially to do with the fact that the only thing they have in common is a blood oath to. To Maeve, but who, I think, in this book is kind of a boring villain. But she does get more interesting as time goes on. They just haven't. They just haven't quite unlocked she. Hasn't quite unlocked her yet, but she will. [01:17:13] Speaker A: That's a knot for me as Maeve. Like, I just felt like. As. I mean, you know, obviously the worst woman in the book, but I just feel like if she's, like, this looming, like, bad figure, and, like, ultimately they're gonna have to figure out what to do in approaching her and confronting her, knowing that there is this blood oath that Rowan has with her, it just felt like she should have played a bigger role throughout the book as opposed to just, like, living up in Doranaal or whatever. And then we just see her for, like, a few short minutes there at the end. [01:17:48] Speaker C: Right. And it's like a scene. And this is the other thing, like, that I wanted to say, like, one thing that Sarah J. Maas does very well in Crescent City and in, I think some of the Acotar books is write women who are willing to play the game. They're in it. They're fighting. They're, like, trying to figure out the politics. [01:18:06] Speaker A: They're trying to figure out. [01:18:07] Speaker C: They're trying to, like, the politics, like, in direct opposition to some of the other books we've read. Y' all have read, like, the Spark of the Everflame book. DM does not want to be involved in politics. She doesn't want to deal with the military. She doesn't want to deal with anything. She wants to, like, be with her and her man and just like, get every power out there. And that's not an interesting character. [01:18:27] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:18:28] Speaker C: And this is the start of, like, Aelin playing the game. But she gets much better at it in later books because the three threat to Maeve at the end where she's like, I'm gonna blow up your home if you don't let me leave. [01:18:40] Speaker B: Like, Rowan. [01:18:41] Speaker C: Yeah, it's kind of like. Okay, well, yeah, it's not. [01:18:44] Speaker B: It's one note. Yeah. [01:18:45] Speaker C: You're clearly bluffing. [01:18:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:18:46] Speaker C: Like, this is, like, not a. Like, it's just not, like, that compelling of a power move. There are. There are moves to come that are. [01:18:53] Speaker B: That is what Sarah's so good at, you know, and that gives me kind of a Game of Thrones feel like. Game of Thrones is, like, very. There's so much politics and. And. But. But she's so good at that. [01:19:05] Speaker C: Yeah, she's so good at it. She's so good at it because she makes the people feel real. Like, she makes these, like, people. Like, I feel like while Selena has a lot of attributes that are, like, very exceptional to her, you know, she's like a fairy and, like, an assassin and a queen. I know. I know her. My sister. [01:19:21] Speaker A: Exactly. [01:19:21] Speaker C: One of my sister's friends from her volleyball team is exactly like Selena, where she's, like, nice. [01:19:27] Speaker A: Likes nice things. [01:19:28] Speaker C: And then, like, when things get serious, she's brutal. [01:19:31] Speaker A: You know what I mean? [01:19:31] Speaker C: Like, that woman exists, and she, like, is, like, the captain of a volleyball team. Yeah, it is. [01:19:36] Speaker B: Love it. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:19:38] Speaker A: That's fair. I love it. [01:19:40] Speaker B: She's great. [01:19:41] Speaker A: Any others? [01:19:42] Speaker C: I had a couple other. [01:19:44] Speaker B: Not. [01:19:45] Speaker C: Well, just like. And we've read Crescent City and Throne, A Court of Thorns and Roses, and all these books are connected. And I thought that there were interesting things that came up in this book that were connected to the others. [01:19:58] Speaker A: So, like, yes. [01:20:00] Speaker B: The. [01:20:00] Speaker C: When they describe, like, tunneling down into their powers. [01:20:04] Speaker A: Yes. [01:20:04] Speaker C: And, like, that kind of reminded of what was going on in Crescent City when. Like, when they would tunnel down into their powers and have to come back up when they, like, reach that point in their. [01:20:15] Speaker B: The maturity. [01:20:16] Speaker C: Right. Yeah. And then the. Oh, the other knot that I had. And I just. Because this comes back up later. And other books. I don't like Blood oaths. No, I don't like Blood oaths. [01:20:30] Speaker A: No. [01:20:31] Speaker C: I think they're a dumb concept, and I think that they don't mean much, Right. From a reader perspective unless they come along with serious, dire consequences that we see. So, like, unless there is a point at which A character physically suffers because they made a decision. Decision that contradicts a blood oath, then the blood oath is just like they pinky promised. [01:20:57] Speaker B: Right. [01:20:57] Speaker C: And they moved on. Right. And so in this book, we didn't really see much of a consequence to the blood oaths, especially since Maeve was just like, yeah, whatever, here you go. Yeah. [01:21:05] Speaker B: Yeah. And I just have a feeling that it's going to get insufferable in terms of, like, his, like, you know, being territorial of her. Like, I did the blood oath. [01:21:16] Speaker A: Yeah. And that whole scene was just like, a lot like he broke one blood oath and was like, take me, I need another. I need. I need to have another blood oath. [01:21:23] Speaker C: Yes. It was like. Yeah. Couldn't go a minute without it. [01:21:27] Speaker B: Yeah. And then he was like, drinking her blood, like three gulps from her wrist. [01:21:32] Speaker A: No, I don't like it. [01:21:33] Speaker B: Don't like it. [01:21:34] Speaker C: Yeah. Not for me. [01:21:35] Speaker A: You know what I thought was so funny? Them going into those little towns with the demi Fae. Also. It's a knot. Was like, all the hate against biracial people in this damn book. I was like, I cannot deal with these people not being able to go to their ancestral homelands because the Queen doesn't think they're good enough. Maybe that's my own personal triggers coming to surface. [01:21:55] Speaker B: I mean, it's true. Yeah. [01:21:57] Speaker C: Yeah. I also think. And there's, like, there's more to come from that. But that is something that I don't think ever really gets, like, resolved in these books is this tension between being a fairy, being human being, both. Like, okay, it's. That is not something. Because you would think that that is, like, such a clear allegory to, like, you know, like, race politics in, like, America or, like today or. There's, like, so many ways that that applies. Could apply interestingly from a narrative perspective. [01:22:32] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:22:33] Speaker C: To. But it. I don't think she sticks the landing on it in the end of this book or in the end of the series. [01:22:40] Speaker A: It's tough to read. [01:22:41] Speaker C: It is. It is. And I also think, like, because essentially, like, if you're a demi Fae, you can't stay with the humans because they're gonna kill you. [01:22:51] Speaker B: Right. [01:22:52] Speaker C: And you're not allowed into the fairy land. So you have to stay in this, like, in between place, which is like, it's. There's themes that will come back because it's like a misty place. And there's a lot of misty places in Sarah J. Maas. Well, and because, like, misty places are, like, thinner between the worlds. Remember that came out across the city. And that's why. Yeah. So there are certain things that were introduced that will, like, you know, come up again, but I don't think she sticks to landing. [01:23:25] Speaker B: Yeah. The race relations in this book. Yeah. [01:23:28] Speaker A: It's not great. I'm a little bit. Like, we should have explored that a little bit more, so. [01:23:33] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. But again, I think this is like a growing teens book. I think this is her trying to figure it out, and then she, you know, I think takes what works and leaves what doesn't. [01:23:42] Speaker B: Right, Right. [01:23:42] Speaker C: In. In later books. [01:23:43] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:23:44] Speaker A: Love it. [01:23:46] Speaker B: Are we ready for a game? [01:23:47] Speaker A: I think we're ready for a game, Mikey, with our time today and as our special guest, you're going to be playing a game of mash. [01:23:54] Speaker B: Mash. [01:23:55] Speaker C: Yes. You sent me the categories before this, and I promptly did not think about them. That's okay. I'm gonna pull them up, and then I'm gonna have to come up with them off the cuff. So y' all going to have. [01:24:05] Speaker B: And I have some in case you don't. Yeah. That I can give to him. [01:24:09] Speaker C: Oh, wait, are you playing or am I playing? [01:24:10] Speaker B: You're playing. [01:24:11] Speaker A: You're playing. Okay. You're a special guest this week. [01:24:13] Speaker C: Okay. [01:24:15] Speaker A: Okay. Let me pull up the prompts here. [01:24:19] Speaker B: Because then you'll pick, like, four. Right? Yeah. [01:24:22] Speaker C: Okay. [01:24:23] Speaker A: Okay. So mash, of course, it's a mansion, an apartment, a shack, and a house. Where is your mansion? My. [01:24:30] Speaker C: My mansion is in Dorano. [01:24:33] Speaker A: Love that. Great property in Dorano. [01:24:35] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. Great property value, you know, go through. [01:24:38] Speaker B: A lot of Betty Moores. [01:24:39] Speaker A: Yeah. Lots of bidding wars. [01:24:41] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:24:41] Speaker A: Apartment where. [01:24:43] Speaker C: My apartment is in the. It's in the glass castle. Well, it's in the. The town that. The glass castle. Rift hold. Yes, it's in. Rift hold. [01:24:53] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay. [01:24:56] Speaker B: Okay. [01:24:58] Speaker A: Where's your shack? [01:24:59] Speaker C: My shack is in the mountains where the witches are training. [01:25:04] Speaker B: Oh, Cambrian mountains. [01:25:06] Speaker C: No, the Omega. Yes, yes. Omega. Yes. It's in those mountains. I farm the sheep that the wyvern eat sometimes. [01:25:17] Speaker A: Well, let's just, you know, wait till Occupations we can listen to. Yeah, we're waiting for oxygen. Occupations. [01:25:23] Speaker B: Okay. [01:25:23] Speaker C: Oh, occupations. [01:25:24] Speaker A: Gotcha. [01:25:24] Speaker C: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. [01:25:26] Speaker A: Where's your house? [01:25:27] Speaker C: My house is in. It's in the wastes. My house is in the wastes. [01:25:33] Speaker A: It's very up and coming out there. [01:25:35] Speaker C: You know, the thing is, everybody moved out, but now things are starting to happen again. Yes, exactly. So, you know, it's. You get in now. You know, you might, you know. [01:25:46] Speaker A: Yeah. Buy low, sell high. That's. [01:25:48] Speaker C: That's always the goal. That's always the goal. [01:25:50] Speaker A: Okay, so tell me about love interests. I need four love interests. [01:25:55] Speaker C: All right, My first love interest is going to be Edien, because I have a big time crush on Eddie, and. [01:26:00] Speaker B: I think Eddie and Cutie love him. [01:26:03] Speaker C: Love him. [01:26:03] Speaker A: Okay, next. [01:26:05] Speaker C: Next love interest, I'm gonna say Dorian. I like, I. I think that there's something neat about him, and I think he's got potential. [01:26:13] Speaker A: He grown on me certainly since the first book. Okay. [01:26:16] Speaker C: Third, I'm going to say Loran. [01:26:22] Speaker A: Okay. [01:26:23] Speaker C: I think we were introduced to him. He is like a meaner version of Rowan and. [01:26:27] Speaker A: Just a big man. [01:26:28] Speaker C: Just a big man. [01:26:29] Speaker B: He's a meaner version of Rowan. That's crazy. [01:26:32] Speaker A: Yeah, he's like the commander of their cadra. [01:26:34] Speaker B: Oh, my God. Oh, no. [01:26:38] Speaker C: Yeah, he's like the commander of their. And things happen. [01:26:41] Speaker A: Well, when everybody else was in animal form, he was like, fuck that. I'm walking in here in my human form. He did not even. [01:26:46] Speaker C: He's got a bad attitude, and I like that. [01:26:48] Speaker A: Yes, you do. Okay, I need one more. [01:26:52] Speaker C: Okay, I'm gonna change it up. The king. [01:26:55] Speaker A: All right. [01:26:55] Speaker C: Also, not. Y' all spoiling a major twist for yourselves. Yesterday, when you were. Or not yesterday. Last episode, when you were like, let's like, play the game of who's in this. Looking through the character names and finding out that the king's name is Dorian. [01:27:08] Speaker B: No. What? [01:27:09] Speaker A: Yeah, I was like, Dorian the first. [01:27:11] Speaker C: Oh, that is a big time. [01:27:13] Speaker B: Like, is that a reveal? [01:27:14] Speaker C: It's not that big of a reveal, but there is a reveal at some point where there. [01:27:18] Speaker A: I didn't even think it could be a reveal because I'm like, oh, well, that's his dad, so of course he first. [01:27:23] Speaker B: Right, Right, right, right, right. Yeah. Oh, I didn't even think about that either. But yeah, interesting. [01:27:26] Speaker A: Okay, okay. [01:27:27] Speaker C: But anyway. Yes. You're spoiling things left and right for yourself on this. Yes. [01:27:33] Speaker A: Okay, tell me about strange familial connection. So who and how are you related? [01:27:40] Speaker C: Okay, let's see. I am related to the king. [01:27:45] Speaker A: Okay. [01:27:46] Speaker C: And we are related because our moms were friends when we were in kindergarten together. Okay. And they stayed close, but we kind of drifted. Okay. But now every like. Like, every, like three or four years, I awkwardly have to see him at a party. [01:28:01] Speaker B: Check him. Yeah, yeah, check on him. [01:28:03] Speaker A: Okay. I love that. [01:28:06] Speaker C: Manon. [01:28:06] Speaker A: Okay. [01:28:07] Speaker C: She's my sister's friend. She and my sister were friends for, like three years. They had a big blow up fight a Year ago, and their relationship's been kind of tense since then. There's still love there, but it's not quite the same. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Okay. And then I'm gonna say, Baba Yellow Legs. She was my grandmother. Rip. [01:28:32] Speaker B: Oh, rip. [01:28:33] Speaker A: Okay. [01:28:33] Speaker C: Yeah. The funeral was weird, I bet. [01:28:35] Speaker B: Yeah, I bet. [01:28:36] Speaker A: It was tense. [01:28:37] Speaker C: It was tense. And then I'm gonna say I'm trying to think about the characters because there's characters that I want to do that aren't introduced yet. Oh, Stygian spiders. [01:28:51] Speaker A: Okay. [01:28:52] Speaker C: One of the stygian spiders was my nanny growing up. [01:28:55] Speaker B: Oh. [01:28:56] Speaker C: And she taught me how to weave, like, yarn. [01:29:00] Speaker A: Okay. [01:29:01] Speaker C: I was never very good at it, but, you know, it was something for us to bond over. [01:29:05] Speaker B: I love that nice little au pair from a different culture. [01:29:08] Speaker A: I love that. [01:29:09] Speaker C: You know, that works for me. Great. [01:29:13] Speaker A: Okay. Occupations. [01:29:14] Speaker C: Four occupations. Occupation. I'm gonna say first one is wyvern handler meets unfortunate end. Because those wyvern handlers are getting eaten left and right. They're dying left and right. And also, they apparently tasted weird. [01:29:28] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:29:28] Speaker C: That was, like, a thing. That's, like, an odd aspect of this, because the witches are cannibals, so they're like. These humans taste funky. [01:29:34] Speaker B: They're like. They're like, don't. Don't eat them. [01:29:36] Speaker C: Don't eat them. [01:29:37] Speaker A: Tainted. [01:29:38] Speaker C: Yeah. And then I'm gonna say. Say I work in the kitchens at Mist Ward. [01:29:46] Speaker A: Okay. [01:29:47] Speaker C: Which is going to be a commute, depending on where my house is. Yes. I work in the kitchens at Mist Ward. And I am not well liked. Okay. The other one. Let's see. I, a goat herder in the mountains, tending my flock, trying desperately to keep them away from the wyverns, but ultimately. [01:30:09] Speaker A: Failing and finding that they're taken by the witches. [01:30:11] Speaker C: They're taken by the witches. And then I am also a. Like, Sersa. I'm a healer. [01:30:22] Speaker A: Okay. [01:30:22] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:30:22] Speaker C: And I'm gossiping about what she's doing with the prince. [01:30:24] Speaker B: I'm like, can you believe they're. [01:30:28] Speaker C: He's after that plain little girl. Oh, my goodness. He could do so much better. Like, I mean, like, I'm about it. Like, I'm mean about it. Yeah. [01:30:34] Speaker A: I love that. [01:30:34] Speaker B: She's pretty specific about how she's playing. Like, Sor is playing. [01:30:38] Speaker C: It's like he thinks she's cute. He's like, o, they pulled a kale on Sera. [01:30:43] Speaker A: Like, she wasn't beautiful, but she's doable in a certain light smile. [01:30:48] Speaker C: Don't feel bad for what's about to happen. Yeah. [01:30:51] Speaker A: Lord. Okay. And in terms of your dormant magical manifestation. [01:30:58] Speaker C: Okay. We did magic powers the last time I was here, and I feel like I named basic ones, so I want to. I want to try to be creative. [01:31:07] Speaker A: Let's do it. All right. [01:31:12] Speaker C: Magical man. Oh, I can shift into. You know how like Selena can shift into a fae form? Yeah, I can shift into my same form, but my eyes are slightly different. They're purple. [01:31:25] Speaker A: Okay. [01:31:27] Speaker C: I can. So that's one. Okay. The other one I can identify when someone has a Val. Possessing them. [01:31:42] Speaker A: Okay. [01:31:42] Speaker C: But only by smell. [01:31:45] Speaker A: Okay. [01:31:48] Speaker C: The. Oh, I have the ability to read word marks, but I can't write it. [01:32:02] Speaker A: Oh, that's like me with Spanish. [01:32:04] Speaker C: Yeah, it's French for me. Yeah, French for me too. [01:32:06] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:32:09] Speaker A: And. [01:32:15] Speaker B: What are we doing? Magical. [01:32:16] Speaker C: Magical path powers. [01:32:20] Speaker B: Dormant magical powers. I guess something. Another shift, like shifting into. I mean, a witch. You could be a fairy witch. No. [01:32:32] Speaker C: Oh, I have the witch's ability to flip down the. The iron teeth. But instead of iron teeth, they're like, you know those like jokey magician teeth that like have like a gap in them and you like, put them in your. Like to entertain children. Like, those are what come down over my. Yes, here we go. Okay, we got there. [01:32:50] Speaker B: We got there. Yeah. [01:32:51] Speaker A: I love it. [01:32:52] Speaker C: Which it wasn't clear. Was that installed into them as babies or did. Were they born with the ability to iron? To like have like dentures. Iron dentures in their teeth? [01:33:01] Speaker B: I don't know. There was a whole thing about like when they were born, they're like the matron or whatever. Like, like grabbed their mother's heart from their chest. [01:33:11] Speaker C: Manon specifically. That doesn't happen to all of them. But Manon's mother died. [01:33:16] Speaker B: I think it happened. Maybe there was like somebody. They were talking about Lynn. [01:33:20] Speaker C: Oh, yeah, Lynn. Yes, Lynn. [01:33:22] Speaker B: Yeah. They were like her soft hearted mother. I was like, oh, man. [01:33:24] Speaker C: Oh, no, that's right. It wasn't Manon. It was Lynn. Lynn. Yes. But that's not all of them. Not all of the. But I think it is hard for witches to get pregnant. That is like a. That is like. That is. Okay, okay. [01:33:33] Speaker B: All right. [01:33:35] Speaker A: Okay. And then lastly, how many members are in your Cadra or your 13, so to speak, in your capacity? [01:33:44] Speaker C: Okay, I'm gonna say none as my first one. It's just me. Second, I'm gonna say 173. It's a very large Cadra. Then I'm gonna say. [01:34:05] Speaker A: Four. [01:34:06] Speaker C: Okay. But they're all women. [01:34:08] Speaker A: Let's hope for that. [01:34:09] Speaker C: Let for that yeah. That also have magical powers, but different magical powers. So each one is unique. [01:34:15] Speaker B: You should write that book. [01:34:18] Speaker C: I should. [01:34:18] Speaker B: You should write that book. [01:34:20] Speaker C: Yes, yes. Four amazing witches with different magical powers. And then just me, a non powered gay man, being like. So we want to go to, you know, we can do a trip to Andersonville. Yeah, we can go to Taste of Heaven. You know, we'll pass by Fia, and I'll be like, oh, I love Fia, but not actually go in there. And then last one is going to be 10, no, 12 gay men, all on a kickball team, all kind of dislike each other. [01:34:52] Speaker B: That's what I want. [01:34:52] Speaker A: And a few of them are in a book club together. [01:34:56] Speaker C: Yes. A few of them are in a book club, and a few of them are in a polycule. [01:34:59] Speaker B: And we celebrate them. Yeah. [01:35:01] Speaker A: Okay, great. Our resident warlock, Christian. I need a number between 1 and 10. Okay. [01:35:09] Speaker C: 6. [01:35:10] Speaker B: Love that. [01:35:11] Speaker A: Which you number. All right, Talk. Talk amongst yourselves while I. [01:35:14] Speaker B: Do you guys remember what were they called when you could. You could get comments, contacts that change your eye color? [01:35:22] Speaker C: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, color contacts. [01:35:24] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Like, do you know, like, how messed up is that? That they were doing people? [01:35:28] Speaker C: Well, they still do them. And drag queens use them all the time. [01:35:30] Speaker B: Okay. [01:35:31] Speaker C: Because, like, certain drag queens will be like. Like, Trixie Mattel used to use blue contacts all the time because her whole thing was like a Barbie thing. [01:35:37] Speaker B: Okay, okay. [01:35:38] Speaker C: Naomi Smalls used to do contact changes with her costume changes. So she would be like. [01:35:43] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. That's one thing, I think, as like part. Part of a costume, you know, or part of like a character, you know, but like, just in like changing your eyes. I don't know. [01:35:52] Speaker C: Yeah, it's one of those things where it's like. It's also so clockable. Like, it's. You're not fooling anybody with those contacts. Everyone knows that your eyes are not like bright purple. [01:36:02] Speaker B: Right, Right. [01:36:03] Speaker C: So, yeah, it's. It's a strange. It's a strange impulse. The other thing, I. I think I've been. I've been very compelled by WIG units for men recently. Like, because I think that we're making leaps and bound in WIG technology. [01:36:22] Speaker A: Oh, for sure. [01:36:23] Speaker C: And the like, I think we're. Do there's toupee technology now that is like, seamless. That's actually quite interesting. [01:36:30] Speaker B: Wait, you don't need a toupee, though. [01:36:32] Speaker C: No, no, no, no. I'm compelled about it by, in like, theory, like, the idea that. But like. Okay, I like the idea of, like, men being able to Engage in wigs more. [01:36:41] Speaker B: I love that. [01:36:42] Speaker C: And I think that, like. I think there's, like. I think it's, like, the opposite of the contacts for me, where, like, they're getting good enough now, where sometimes I wouldn't have known that they're wearing a unit. [01:36:51] Speaker B: You know, I think a lot of actresses, like, actually wear wig. [01:36:55] Speaker C: Like, I. Nicole Kidman in every role. Are you kidding me? She refuses to get her hair done. She's like, just slap the wig on me, and she will pay $2 for that wig. The wig is always terrible. [01:37:02] Speaker B: I. Oh, yeah, well, that's true. That's true. [01:37:04] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:37:05] Speaker B: But, you know, we started off as, like. Did you ever watch the Good Wife? [01:37:08] Speaker C: Like, I did not. [01:37:09] Speaker B: Okay. Julianne Moore had, like, the worst wig in it, but again, that was like, whatever, like, 10, 15 years ago. So I imagine it's gotten much better. [01:37:18] Speaker C: You would think that wig technology, especially with how prevalent drag queens are, you think that wig technology is great. But every now and then, you're watching it. I'll watch a TV show, and I'll be like, could we not judge that a little? Could we not, like, get the lace down just a little bit? Because it is, like, it's obvious. I think it's also the high def cameras now. You know, you got to put a little fudge on that lace. [01:37:36] Speaker B: Right, Right? [01:37:37] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:37:38] Speaker A: You want to know? Are you ready? [01:37:40] Speaker C: I would love to know my future. [01:37:41] Speaker A: Okay. [01:37:41] Speaker C: Is it a dark future for me, or are things like that? [01:37:43] Speaker A: It has its merits. [01:37:45] Speaker C: Okay. Okay. All right. [01:37:47] Speaker A: Okay, my friend, you. Let's start with the shining star. You are in a relationship with your sweet, beloved biking Adian. [01:37:55] Speaker B: Yes. [01:37:56] Speaker C: Wonderful. Wonderful. [01:37:57] Speaker A: You have an apartment in Rift hold. Oh, I can do. [01:38:00] Speaker C: I can do that. Yeah. Selena has an apartment. Look at her. She becomes a queen. [01:38:03] Speaker A: Now, you do have to commute out to the. To Ms. Word to work in the kitchens. [01:38:08] Speaker C: That's fine. You know, I love a drive. I'll put on a lay album and just, you know. [01:38:12] Speaker A: Yes, you're not liked. Just. No, just remember that you're not liked. [01:38:15] Speaker B: Well. [01:38:15] Speaker C: And you know what? A little bit of conflict in the. [01:38:17] Speaker B: Workplace, I think is Absolutely. [01:38:18] Speaker A: It's healthy. [01:38:19] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:38:20] Speaker A: You are connected to Manon via your sisters being friends. They had a big blowout, and it's awkward, but okay. The two of you are still. [01:38:30] Speaker C: Listen, as long as Manon is in my life. [01:38:32] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [01:38:33] Speaker C: You know, I don't want to get on her bad side, but I want to know what she's got going on. [01:38:36] Speaker A: Yeah. Now, while her iron Teeth come down. You have those fake magician teeth as part of your magic. [01:38:43] Speaker C: Wonderful. And I try to bond with her over the. [01:38:44] Speaker A: That. [01:38:44] Speaker C: And she's like, we're not the same. She's like, you're not as cool as I am. [01:38:48] Speaker A: And then when she flies off with her 13, you're left alone because you have no one. [01:38:53] Speaker C: Oh, that's sad. That's sad. I didn't even get the 12 gay men that kind of hate each other. [01:38:58] Speaker A: They got cut out pretty early. [01:38:59] Speaker C: Yeah, well, that's tough. That's tough. But at least you know, I have Manon for whenever she's around. [01:39:04] Speaker B: And Adon and Ad. [01:39:06] Speaker C: Listen, it's probably better that I don't have 12 other gay men around so I can, like, you know, I'll focus on. [01:39:11] Speaker A: You'd be fighting. Yeah, all the time. [01:39:13] Speaker C: Edian is supposed to be massive. [01:39:16] Speaker B: Really? [01:39:16] Speaker C: Like in the book. He's. They're like, he's huge. Which. [01:39:19] Speaker B: Oh, God, it's very compelling to me. Okay. [01:39:21] Speaker A: You like that? [01:39:23] Speaker C: I like a man. I like a man of substance. [01:39:24] Speaker A: I like that. [01:39:25] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:39:26] Speaker B: Like. Like I. I backed into a wall of muscle. You know, they. That they do that all the time. [01:39:31] Speaker A: That to me. [01:39:32] Speaker C: Okay. So I like the idea of a. Of a. Of a larger, stronger man. The I backed into a wall of muscle gives me the I'm just a little, teeny, tiny girl thing. And I don't like that for me, no, I. I don't want to be a little, teeny, tiny girl. Right, right. I want to be like an average guy. [01:39:50] Speaker B: Right, right, right, right. [01:39:52] Speaker C: Look at him. Look at my mountain. Yeah. [01:39:55] Speaker A: Okay. [01:39:56] Speaker B: Yeah. I don't think being a teeny, tiny girl is in the cards for any of us. [01:39:59] Speaker A: No. I never grew up feeling dainty. [01:40:02] Speaker C: I don't think that the teeny tiny girls that are described in these books. [01:40:06] Speaker B: Exist in real life. [01:40:07] Speaker C: They don't exist in real life. There's no one. Yeah, they do. [01:40:10] Speaker B: They're children. That's what they are. [01:40:12] Speaker C: Well, and that's the other thing. Like when, with all the self loathing that Selena had going on in this, it's like, girl, you're 18. [01:40:19] Speaker B: Yeah, I know you're 18. [01:40:21] Speaker C: We got it. You got to give yourself a little credit. [01:40:23] Speaker A: I'm like, you think this is bad? Wait until. Wait until you're about 37 and you're looking back on the situation in your. [01:40:29] Speaker B: 20S, you're trying to buy a condo. [01:40:30] Speaker A: Bag, and then you're looking back being like, why didn't I save. [01:40:34] Speaker C: Yeah, now you're 20 years deep into, like, your relationship with your cousin who hits you, and you're like, well, Dorian wasn't looking that bad after all. [01:40:43] Speaker B: Or kale. Any of them. [01:40:44] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:40:45] Speaker A: Honestly. Yeah. I take kale any day over this. [01:40:48] Speaker B: It's bad. And I. In the end, when she cut her hair, and then there was this, like, weird moment where she was like. And then I looked in the mirror and I saw one woman, and I was like, oh, my God, I don't like it. Yeah, because that means you were a child for the last three books. [01:41:03] Speaker A: I know. And then I, in my head, heard the Britney Spears classic, not a girl, or. Yeah, I'm not a girl. Not yet a woman. [01:41:10] Speaker B: Not yet a woman. Oh, Britney. [01:41:13] Speaker A: That will be the song of this year. This week's Instagram post. [01:41:16] Speaker B: Yes. [01:41:16] Speaker A: Wonderful. We're finding the material as we build it. Love that. All right, I think that's it for me today. [01:41:22] Speaker B: I think that's it. Okay. [01:41:23] Speaker A: All right, well, thank you so much for tuning in. And remember, if you're feeling the vibe, rate and subscribe now. [01:41:32] Speaker B: Thank you so much. To our. I'm not going to call him a special guest because he's just, you know. [01:41:37] Speaker C: There'S nothing special about him. Just a guest. [01:41:39] Speaker B: He's just a podcast army comes in once in a while. [01:41:42] Speaker A: Yeah, he's. He's a high. He's a hired gun. [01:41:45] Speaker C: Yeah. Freelance. [01:41:46] Speaker B: Yeah. Freelance. Yeah. Yeah. [01:41:48] Speaker C: And my rates are competitive. [01:41:50] Speaker B: You're a little bit of an entrepreneur. [01:41:51] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. Business is in my blood, you know? [01:41:56] Speaker B: All right, so, Michael, thank you very much for being here. As always, thank you to Christian McCann for keeping our sound in check. And to the illustrious Lincoln Lodge in Chicago, Illinois, for letting us do our thing. Until next time. [01:42:08] Speaker A: Bye. [01:42:09] Speaker C: Bye. Bye, Sam.